clark it's time to switch brands.... :)

[benfoxmra95]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_e_gC99Ql0&feature=related

[marty]

thats kinda wierd, its only firing every other stroke. seems like a waste :lol:

[Clarkie]

when they make it the same firing order as the M1 I will think about it :wink:

[Hotrod]

Yamagiggle finally invented flywheel weights?


Woah! Whats next? Something nutty like overhead valves? Five perchance?
:lol:

[benfoxmra95]

Yamagiggle finally invented flywheel weights?


Woah! Whats next? Something nutty like overhead valves? Five perchance?
:lol:


ah...what?

they didn't add weight to the flywheel, they moved the crankpins every 90 degrees.

The effect is you don't have a crank that's constantly speeding up and slowing down. because as one piston is slowing down during its cycle there's another piston moving at it's fastest rotation during it's cycle thus counteracting the effect.

A flat plane crank, will always have inertial effect that's continually ramping upwards from the constant speeding up and slowing down of the pistons.

I dont know if i would call this a big bang motor, as if you look at the firing order it is 1,3,2,4 the power pulses to the wheel are going to be spread out, as opposed to like a twin, where there's two quick power pulses, then there's a long wait period 540 degrees, then the process repeats. a big bang 4 cyl will fire 1,4 at the same time, then 180 degrees later 2,3 will fire at the same time.


A friend of mine Tony wilcox(motoczysz crankshaft engineer) has figured out on his force plot program that the new r1 motor will have perfect primary and secondary balance, not possible on a flat plane crank. I'll post up more tech stuff from him if i get some.

we played with different firing orders on the czysz c1 and the results were interesting, because the motor has two cranks and we could control the phasing of cylinders 1,2 to 3,4. The effects of primary balance and secondary balance were significant when changing, as well as power too, as the scavenging in the exhaust was changed with the firing order.

[Scorekeeper]

That's alot of torque! :roll: kinda like skillz...num-chuk skillz, bow hunting skillz, computer hacking skillz..... :lol:

[marty]

ah...what?

they didn't add weight to the flywheel, they moved the crankpins every 90 degrees.

The effect is you don't have a crank that's constantly speeding up and slowing down. because as one piston is slowing down during its cycle there's another piston moving at it's fastest rotation during it's cycle thus counteracting the effect.

A flat plane crank, will always have inertial effect that's continually ramping upwards from the constant speeding up and slowing down of the pistons.

I dont know if i would call this a big bang motor, as if you look at the firing order it is 1,3,2,4 the power pulses to the wheel are going to be spread out, as opposed to like a twin, where there's two quick power pulses, then there's a long wait period 540 degrees, then the process repeats. a big bang 4 cyl will fire 1,4 at the same time, then 180 degrees later 2,3 will fire at the same time.


A friend of mine Tony wilcox(motoczysz crankshaft engineer) has figured out on his force plot program that the new r1 motor will have perfect primary and secondary balance, not possible on a flat plane crank. I'll post up more tech stuff from him if i get some.

we played with different firing orders on the czysz c1 and the results were interesting, because the motor has two cranks and we could control the phasing of cylinders 1,2 to 3,4. The effects of primary balance and secondary balance were significant when changing, as well as power too, as the scavenging in the exhaust was changed with the firing order.

sorry if it was explained in the video, ( my computer doesn't have sound ), but i find all this motor tuning/development stuff extremely fascinating. so if you are making power every 90 degrees will you get smoother power delivery or more efficent power? would that make more power or just make the power more controlable? would it be more torquey or spin up faster? also what is the difference in primary and secondary balance? if it is too much to try to break down to laymen terms, maybe we can meet up at pikes and you could give me the reader digest version

thanks
marty

[Hotrod]

Ahhh, I see. My 'puter doesn't sport sound either. I watched that vid a bunch of times, and couldn't for the life of me spot what the hell they were trying to convey other than the difference between inertial torque and actual torque.
Thanks for the clarification, Ben.
:wink:

[Jadam]

I don't think it creates more power, just so much as it delivers it smoother. Maybe get a tiny bit more power just do to the fact that it doesn't have to fight such a harsh torque curve. I think the biggest advantage of the system would be that it would result in more reliable traction in turns by eliminating some of the joltiness of the throttle... but what would I know, I just take pictures :P

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

they didn't add weight to the flywheel, they moved the crankpins every 90 degrees.
<... snip ...>
I dont know if i would call this a big bang motor, as if you look at the firing order it is 1,3,2,4 the power pulses to the wheel are going to be spread out, as opposed to like a twin, where there's two quick power pulses, then there's a long wait period 540 degrees, then the process repeats.

Ok, let's see if I can get it. So a twin (say 90deg like a Duc or TLR) fires like this - 1 fires, 270deg rotation, 2 fires, 450 deg rotation, 1 fires, ...

A regular 4 cyl goes - 1 fires, 180 deg, 3 fires, 180 deg, 4 fires, 180 deg, 2 fires, 180 deg, 1 fires .. right?

So this one will do, what .. - 1 fires, 270 deg, 3 fires, 180 deg, 2 fires, 90 deg, 4 fires, 180 deg, 1 fires ...

Sound about right? It really seems like this motor will feel a little like a twin with a couple more power pulses (from cyls 2 & 4) between what would be the twin 450 deg coasting period. Ben, did I get this right?

If so, what the eff is the exhaust system going to look like? How the heck will scavenging work with such odd-ball pulses? Hmmm...

But to the real question - how piggish will the '09 R1 be??

[Scored51]

But to the real question - how piggish will the '09 R1 be??

Probably about half as bad as a TLR! :lol:

Yamaha isn't changing the firing order, just the position of the counter balancing weights on the crankshaft. It probably came about when a machinist screwed up making a crank, then an engineer didn't catch it in testing but wondered why the heck the power delivery was smoother. The marketing department finally straightened everyone out by giving it a fancy name, "cross plain thing-a-jig" and everyone was happy.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Probably about half as bad as a TLR! :lol:

Actually, it was Sexy Ben that was calling the Ape's piggish -- but that's another story. :-)


Yamaha isn't changing the firing order, just the position of the counter balancing weights on the crankshaft.

Not so. They're changing the crank pin positions to get 90deg firing positions. Look at the demo - it's no longer a "flat" crank (like those found in current 4 cyls and "boxer" engines) - the pistons rise and fall at 90deg to each other.

[polar x]

SO MANY HATERS.......

[benfoxmra95]

Oink, oink, m'effer.....


Look, this is the first big leap in engine technology that's been released to the general public in a long time.. at least technology that doesn't cost a second mortgage on your house, (desmosidici, rc45, rc30, nr400/600)

The 4 cylinder engine has been the same basic configuration for more years than we've all been racing.

I think it's kick ass and shows that yamaha want's to step up and try to catch the suzuki's.

The suzuki's make big hp and are a sound platform that's been thoroughly developed, should that determine whether you buy a one? maybe if your within a second of the lap record at any of our tracks, or your running nationals and everyone's racing the same brand.

Im a gagdet guy, i like things that are new and different, certainly not a cookie cutter person.

plus im getting a kickback from yamaha for every bike sale i make....j/k i wish.

has the new suzuki been released yet? I am curious as to what hammer they will drop this year. hopefully they just update the headlights and change the design of mirrors... :roll:

[JimWilson29]

has the new suzuki been released yet? I am curious as to what hammer they will drop this year. hopefully they just update the headlights and change the design of mirrors... :roll:


http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=34373

http://gkasper.smugmug.com/photos/380251527_yGpEh-O.jpg

[benfoxmra95]

Yep looks like just a headlght update and just look at those mufflers, there's just no way that thing could be fast. Suzuki really screwed up this time... :P

[dave.gallant]

Strange thing about the ZookaPig is that is almost entirely new, from engine to frame.

Still ugly as ever though! 8)

[Jon]

Two Observations, the Japanese bike manufactures seem to be in a race to see who can produce the fastest yet ugliest bike to the public....Suzuki's winning the race. Two, what ever happened to the Motoczysz and there claim that they would have a bike in a major championship classification in the next year, that was two years ago.
Ben you drop a bomb on the effort or just put them two years behind....just kidding but what's going on with them. I know several people put deposits on bikes have they been produced?

[benfoxmra95]

Two Observations, the Japanese bike manufactures seem to be in a race to see who can produce the fastest yet ugliest bike to the public....Suzuki's winning the race. Two, what ever happened to the Motoczysz and there claim that they would have a bike in a major championship classification in the next year, that was two years ago.
Ben you drop a bomb on the effort or just put them two years behind....just kidding but what's going on with them. I know several people put deposits on bikes have they been produced?

That's a good question jon. I haven't had contact with michael czysz lately, but the last time we did it they were still trying to get funding (more) and if they got the right amount I would be brought back on to expand on the goals I set for part of their motor program that couldn't be done with the limited resources and funding they had while I was there.

I hope they get it soon as this economy we are heading into doesn't lend itself to major bigwigs handing out millions for the fun of it.