How high...

[Clarkie]

... do you think a 1000cc WSBK revs to?

I know of a WSBK that went on the AMA Dynojet dyno at the track, the operator was asked to take the bike to red line, how high do they rev?

[Jon]

It would help immensely if I could review the WSB rulebook but as I don't have one handy, I'm thinking I voted a bit low. MotoGP bikes are around 19,000 at least the Duc is. There's a bunch of trick sh^t in a WSB bike but just not sure how much. The more you can lighten the internals and the better you can balance it spells how fast you can spin it soooooo. I'm waiting for an answer, but I'll bet it's a hell of a lot higher than a Daytona Superbike...hahahahah

[Clarkie]

Stock rods, crank, pistons and head are open, cam lift is restricted but duration is open, not sure about valves and valve springs but i think they are open as well.

I think the stock alternator is required as well, we had an issue in tech where they wouldnt let a Vortex case cover pass, but would allow a stock cover with a 'guard' like the Woodcraft ones. The Alstare Suzuki Team had stock covers with carbon guards on it

[Jon]

Alrighty then mostly stock parts throughout I assume the ECU'S open and can be tuned for a higher than normal redline but then again the engines mostly stock :roll: You got me. Not too terrible often that you see one not finish. Short of cheating and calling a friend who used to work in WSB, I haven't a clue but would imagine not too much terrible higher than what a GSXR or R1 is these days which is what as I don't ride them I'd guess 16'000 due to porting the heads for more high RPM HP. BTW what do I get if I win?? Your killing me

[TRK]

Twice as high as the MIGHTY SV??? :oops:

[Clarkie]

ECU's and engine management is open, this bike had a 2D system on it...

What does your SV rev to Shannon........ well when you arent trying to race against 848's? :D

[benfoxmra95]

It's funny that in the voting, the majority of the people just went for the big 17k number, immediately assuming it's got to be some absurd number.

Well I will have to throw in my vote here and say that going from my errr ummm "motogp" engine building experience while working at motoczysz, that 16k is tops. This is using some really high tech valve springs too, I learned alot about valvetrain harmonics and various stress issues there as we consistently tested the limits of the stuff.

There's a point of no return on normal valve spring motors, and 16k is pushing the outerlimits and beyond that you have to go with pneumatic valves or a desmo system.

So do I win the cookie or what?

[Jon]

I'm with you Ben there ain't no magic in them motors just riders who get the most out of them. The difference between 1st and 10 in WSB a heck of a lot closer than AMA SB

[Clarkie]

This particular bike revved to 17,000rpm on the 2D dash which is acurate not like the stock ones, the RPM wasnt hooked up but the power just started to flatten out (not drop at all) at about 16,800rpm

[polar x]

I voted 17K 8) I am so cool :roll: , see all you super dupper motor builders and hot shots don't know everything :wink: And for the record I officially don't know shit. I prove it everytime I open my mouth and show my face. So there, beat that. :P

So how in the hell do they make it go that fast without blowing shit up? I am sure Ben is right about harmonics, so what do they know that GP builders don't? Pretty amazing when you think about it.

So how did your brother in law do?

[Clarkie]

Scott did good, he raced over 250 miles or something retarded, the toughest thing was that our AMA pit was down by T1 under and ezyup, and our WSBK pit was by GP garage 1 (1st garage as you come off track), when I say by GP1 it was next to the dumpster :D

Seriously, they filled the garages up so we had a 6x3' space on the pit lane in front of the dumpster :lol: he qualified 29th (last) on the grid but that only about 3 seconds off pole (before Superpole) on race tires. in race 1 he finshed 23rd and the 2nd race finished 20th, didnt score points but his phone started ringing after the 1st race... :wink:

the thing that sucked for us was that since we had the same bike doing AMA-SBK and WSBK we had to change tanks/bodywork and wheels inbetween the AMA and WSBK sessions/qualifying/races and a lot of times they were back to back sessions and we would get it done in 7-8 minutes.

if you watch the start of race #1 when they had that extra warmup lap, all the other teams ran down the pit lane and went through the gap in the wall with their bitchen pit carts, we just jumped the the wall and threw stands warmers and generators over the wall :D

oh yeah, and the AMA and WSBK Pirelli's are very very different, we struggled for 2 days trying to get the SBK to work on the WSBK tires, it was perfect on the AMA spec tires when we got there, Long week, lots to tell, a lot of it I cant :wink:

[Hotrod]

It's funny that in the voting, the majority of the people just went for the big 17k number, immediately assuming it's got to be some absurd number.


Damn Right I did. Worked too, didn't it! :D

[motobum]

you had to change bodywork, tanks, and wheels?

doesnt world superbike use 16.5? and what are the rules for tanks and bodywork?

[rybo]

Benny,

The spec tire rules in WSBK have the tires VERY tightly controlled so that no "outside" tires can make it onto the grid. As a result separate sets of wheels were needed for the AMA and the WSBK races.

I don't know what the tank and bodywork rules are.

[Clarkie]

FIM wouldnt let AMA decals on the bike anywhere near the track, AMA only gives out one tech sticker, as well as we had WSBK specific sponsors

Tanks, the FIM fuel sucks ass bike lost 8hp on dyno, but same map, they test fuel, any residual AMA fuel would have shown up in the FIM fuel test and it wasnt worth risking cross contamination

Tires, AMA tires arent allowed in WSBK, WSBK tires arent allowed in AMA, every time bike went on FIM track we had to have special stickers on the tires, we had 40+ tires to choose from (including rains etc) but we could only use 9 fronts and 14 rears during the entire event up until the races. We ran the exact same tires and compounds as the Alstare Suzuki team, B front, B rear in the 1st race, C front B rear in the 2nd

[TRK]

40+ tires??
I was thinking white blue green yellow
:roll:

[Clarkie]

3 compound slick fronts, 4 compound slick rears (1 a Q for Superpole), intermediates, rains etc, for the race 99% of teh riders used teh same compound tires, the soft/med/hard fronts are the exact same carcus, just different compounds.

thee WSBK version of a soft is harder than a normal soft, the biggest problem we had was setting the bike up for the WSBK carcus, once we got that right it was all groovy

[TRK]

Do you think they are the future of what we may see, or old school stuff? Or are they tires we will never see?

[dave.gallant]

Do you think they are the future of what we may see, or old school stuff? Or are they tires we will never see?

WSBK uses rebranded Metzlers from 2004!

[Clarkie]

they are not far off what we see in the US at AMA level (which in turn is handed down to us), the biggest difference in the US 16.5's and the WSBK 16.5's is the stiffer carcus. This is the problem we were having at first, the SBK was awesome on the US spec tires and then when we put the WSBK tires Scott said it was like you were on a tire 3 compounds too hard, even though we werent.

once thing we noticed, when you push on a WSBK (we pushed on a few in the tech area) it was like pushing on a MX bike, they are very plush and soft feeling, watching the bikes come out of teh last turn was also interesting, they would squat a lot under acceleration but that was it, of course you couldnt have that sort of setup on any other track in the US :D

[TRK]

How do they come up with new tires or any development???

[Clarkie]

that's my job :D

Each track has a different set of avaliable tires, we had the same selection of tires as Qatar, the 4th rear tire is a R&D tire from what i understand. The tires are always changing, for instance, the softest tire they had at the Utah round is harder than the hardest tire you or I can get........ ok just you :wink:

[TRK]

Damn...................just me

[Clarkie]

yup just you :D

i keep telling you to get your bike set up to run on 3's for a reason :wink:

[TRK]

springs are on the way
geometry is changed
and I will be on 3's come miller!

[Clarkie]

springs are on the way
geometry is changed
and I will be on 3's come miller!

you mean 4's right..... :lol:

[TRK]

people like me can't get 4s....................:)

[dave.gallant]

people like me can't get 4s....................:)

Yes you can.

[Clarkie]

purple is the new green :D

[dave.gallant]

purple is the new green :D

I don't know about those Euro-Gender-Bender color codes, but Yellow is definitely the new green. Maybe even orange!

( To help others on this thread: Pirelli riders use color codes to denote compounds as well as a character code. )

[Clarkie]

white and blue are soooo last year 8)

[TRK]

yellow then red?

[dave.gallant]

yellow then red?

White
Blue
Green
Yellow
Orange

( then those Euro-metrosexual colors! )

[Clarkie]

4's are purple, well the one i used was.... :wink:

i dont care as long as I get my 'matched set' again :lol:

[TRK]

here we go.......................matched sets
were they trued as well?

[dave.gallant]

4's are purple, well the one i used was.... :wink:

i dont care as long as I get my 'matched set' again :lol:

SC4s are orange damn it.

The purple matched sets are only for the darn Australians!

[TRK]

I want the FIVES

[dave.gallant]

here we go.......................matched sets
were they trued as well?

I use an electric turkey carver to balance them perfectly - no weights needed!!

http://www.cnet.com/i/bto/20071106/ElectricKnife_270x270.jpg

[dave.gallant]

I want the FIVES

We can make that happen.

Want a matched set?

[TRK]

matched for a clockwise track?

[TRK]

the better half said I am a loser, should try a orange/purple or a yellow at Miller. The nurse in her says that after having my second surgery in three weeks should go to bed before I hurt myself..............

[Clarkie]

I cant wait til MotoSix gets one of those overnight tire making machines in the back of his trailer, that way I can put my multicompound tire order in Saturday nite and have tires by 8am the next day 8)

I tested a could of dual and tripple compound tires, the duals will be awesome at Pueblo 8)

[clowe]

You all have too much time on your hands.

Pick your colors and go ride your motorcycles.

[akuretz]

Thanks for the insight into the Miller weekend, Clarkie, this was all very interesting to hear! And congrats to Scott!

[Jon]

One things become blatantly apparent during the last two pages of discussion. I being color blind, I could never again run Pirelli tires, when I did they were SC2s,3s,4s. If they are now blue, green or orange I'm lost....actually I think it's blues, greys, and greens that confuse me. But what the hell just the sheer confusion of the conversation got me flustered.
Regardless, good job Scott and crew, sounds like that pit was probably not the ones seen sipping Expresso between sessions!