High Plains Raceway

[Ninja Nate]

When will construction begin? When do they expect to be up and running events?

[cu260r6]

I've wanted to post this question for a while, but I tried to keep my concerns private. It seems the communication flow from the HPR folks has turned to a dribble lately because there is only one clear conclusion. We won't be racing there this year because construction was not begun in time.

[Ninja Nate]

I did not imagine there would be events there this year, but it is already mid-may with no news of breaking ground. I am a bit concerned about next year? Should I be? :-k

[Throttleroller277]

I will let Glenn take this one,........ but NO, should not be concerned about 2009. 8)

[Ninja Nate]

Well thats great to hear! Hopefully I'll be back down to highschool weight by that time 8)

[Jon]

Damn guys your putting it to rest a bit prematurely aren't you. As from the thermostat on the HPR page shows we're only 1.6 or so K away from making it happen and if all of you who promised the check was in the mail or about to be, cough it up, we'll see the track this year. Many who I'll let remain nameless but told of how broke you were and weren't going to race but managed to make it anyway show a little support we'll be racing this year at HPR. There's no reason to assume not as Charlie, Glenn and the rest of the board are making this happen. So get of your asses and donate what you can, Please

[bluedevil]

, we'll see the track this year.


If we started diggin today, you would not see that track in time for this year..... Lookin forward to 2009.....

[PremiumBlend]

I don't know if this would help any, and since I'm pretty new here it might not be my place... 5 or 6 of my buddies who are well known stuntriders here in Denver would most likely be willing to put on a show for FREE. All of them are very good riders, very entertaining and if there was a venue available I'm sure they would ride there.

All donations and proceeds would go to the track, possibly have yet another auction, and try to get that much closer to putting some rubber on HPR pavement.

I know racers and stuntriders are kind of like oil and water, but nothing a little smooth talking wouldn't take care of, and as long as they get exposure that would be their biggest pay off.

Let me know what you guys think, possibly push the idea to the higher ups at the MRA.

Thanks

[JimWilson29]

Many who I'll let remain nameless but told of how broke you were and weren't going to race but managed to make it anyway show a little support we'll be racing this year at HPR. There's no reason to assume not as Charlie, Glenn and the rest of the board are making this happen. So get of your asses and donate what you can, Please


It's possible many of these nameless people have made donations and it just doesnt reflect yet on the contributors list - http://highplainsraceway.com/contributors.html . I made a donation 2 months ago and my name is not on there.

[Lel399]

It's possible many of these nameless people have made donations and it just doesnt reflect yet on the contributors list - http://highplainsraceway.com/contributors.html . I made a donation 2 months ago and my name is not on there.

as well as those that contributed to a brick as a group do not show up separate.

[PremiumBlend]

I just viewed the simulation for the first time and WOW, I have goosebumps. I've never wanted to get out and race to badly!!!

[polar x]

Dion is right.
Take it as an opportunity for the track to raise ADDITIONAL funds for amenities like power, showers, shitters, ect... Hello 09.

[JWinter]

Even if CAMA had a hard bid from a construction company right now, we would be a minimum of 30 days out before dirt gets moved. Then probably another 90 days for construction, of course I'm speculating based on previous experience and I bet there is a proposed construction timetable floating around somewhere. So best case we would have a track at the end of September IF a contractor has already been awarded. Based on my best educated guess each member of CAMA would probably get to have one event a piece for '08 in October depending on weather or if the track gets done early maybe some more events in Sept.

Jeff

[cu260r6]

CAMA estimated $500k in private donations was necessary to start construction, but we've exceeded that and nothing has been done yet. It's hard for people to see why they should donate to a for-profit company when there is no scheduled date for construction to begin. It's hard to continue to ask for donations when nothing is being done with the money CAMA already has.

[Clarkie]

even if the track was finished in October I would personally rather see it left to cure over winter (that means no cars, bikes or anything on track) so it doesnt have to be repaved after 12 months

[PremiumBlend]

Depending on the type of asphalt they use, it could be ready in a week after proper curing. But, this type of abuse probably could use a good off season to harden.

[Clarkie]

Depending on the type of asphalt they use, it could be ready in a week after proper curing. But, this type of abuse probably could use a good off season to harden.

errrr.... no track is ready to be used a week after they pave, this isnt I25 we are talking about :lol:

[neh]

CAMA estimated $500k in private donations was necessary to start construction, but we've exceeded that and nothing has been done yet. It's hard for people to see why they should donate to a for-profit company when there is no scheduled date for construction to begin. It's hard to continue to ask for donations when nothing is being done with the money CAMA already has.

That estimate was based on preliminary numbers 2 years ago. Anyone who believes those numbers were ever set in stone needs to have a reality check. They have since been getting estimates based on actual commercial construction surveys.

They have a set of construction parameters that need to be met before ground breaking can even be considered. Most have been met, but to set a budget they need the construction bids in hand. The most recent estimates showed they needed an "estimated" $2.8 mil to build a usable facility. Fine, we have that, but the bids are still not in and approved.

CAMA is NOT going to even think about breaking ground until they can pay for a usable facility. To do that they need the construction bids in hand and approved and the cash needed to complete at least a usable facility. The more money donated by the time they break ground, the better facility we will have when the first wheel starts turning.

For-profit-- Yes it will be a for profit facility, but the member clubs will get preferred days at preferred rates than non member clubs. Renting the track to non member clubs will keep member club rates lower. Since all of the member clubs are non-profit, any profits will go to pay down the debt, facility maintenance and improvements. Much like Thunderhill. The only difference is thunderhill may have more investors to take care of that HPR won't IF we all donate what we can when we can.

Keep in mind, this time last year there wasn't even any zoning to allow a track. Member donations -$0

I'm as impatient as anyone, but you have to realize that all of this takes time. It's not like building a pond in your backyard when you can do it over a weekend.

[PremiumBlend]

I'm just saying if they REALLY REALLY wanted to race a week after paving, they could race and it would hold up fine, but yes... repeated racing on pavement with little cure time will probably need repaving inside of 18-24 months.

[polar x]

You guys are overlooking one big detail. They have to pay back the debt when the track is done. If they work on it now and it is ready to go in OCT they have to start paying thier debt back soon afterwards. They will not have the income durring the off season to address that debt and build their coffers up for the start of the season. Its more important to have an opening that allows them to start making money on it right away then to please the membership with a token opening.

It's going to happen, its just going to happen on 09 now. No biggie and with a bit of luck they will have more donations that equate to more amenities for the track which is more for us.

[Ninja Nate]

Well I apologize for the shit stiring that I caused, I will put my stick down now...


I was merely curious as to any new information 8)

[The GECCO]

We talked about this at length at the general meeting last night.

Yes, we are experiencing some delays in finalizing the bidding process and the chances of having the track open in 08 are dwindling. I am working on changes to the schedule to make up dates in the event that we lose all three HPR dates this year. We will talk about and VOTE on changes at the Monday riders meeting at HPR.

I'll repeat here something else I mentioned at the general meeting last night - when you're doing any project there are some "conditions" that apply:

- You can have it done RIGHT
- You can have it done FAST
- You can have it done CHEAP

The key is, that you can only pick TWO of these! We want it done RIGHT, and we want it done CHEAP - so FAST may have to suffer, this is a fact of life. A lot of the leg work is being done by industry professionals from within the clubs who are donating their time and expertise (hence, the CHEAP), and sometimes the gratis work has to be set aside to do the stuff that actually pays the bills.

Nate - I don't mind the issue coming up at all. The "What's Happening" letters come out when we have significant, definable events to report. There are a lot of balls in the air right now, mostly related to finalizing revisions to the grading plan and the effects they have on the bidding packages. Once some of these balls land we'll have some news to report.

I have waited to reply, mainly because statements like this

It's hard to continue to ask for donations when nothing is being done with the money CAMA already has.
make me do a slow burn...to say we have done "nothing" is simply absurd and shows complete ignorance about what is involved in a project of this scope. Just yesterday I used a personal vacation day (third one this year so far) so that I could attend a short notice meeting at 10:00am regarding updates to the bid package specs. Just because dirt isn't moving doesn't mean we're sitting on our thumbs just for the hell of it. If anyone has done "nothing", it's the majority of the members of this club who haven't donated a nickel.

So, in the end, if we have to wait until 09, I really do apologize (seriously, that's not a smart-ass apology). I'm not any happier about it than anyone else, but I promise we are working as hard as possible in order to make this a reality.

[cu260r6]

Perhaps it's naive, but my assumption was that if 2/3rds or more of the money has been raised then why not start some amount of the work? If the certainty of the project's completion isn't in question then why wait until all the money has been raised before spending a dime? To the casual observer that seems to just invite unnecessary delay into the process.

What I've gathered from this thread is CAMA saying they're waiting for bids to come in before starting construction while also saying they don't have enough money yet to complete the project. How is the bidding process related to the total amount of money raised if we're already looking for the lowest bid regardless?

I'm not faulting anyone. I know the measly 30 seconds it took for me to write a very small check is nothing in comparison to the work many have put into this project, but denying that the delays and the probability of not racing there this year has played a part in the drying up of contributions is impossible.

[bluedevil]

Though we dont want to admit it, and it saddens many... the possibility of having it done for this season went bye bye sometime near Dec of 07... )IMO) Im only assuming this based solely on how long it took to build a facility like MPH..... They even did bare mins and upgraded after opening as they went along... Thankfully letting proper cure times, and getting the work done cheaper and right was the options they choose and we get to reap the bennies from that decision. I for one am not upset that we dont get it this year provided it seems to be on the "do it right the 1st time", path. I do know from talking with many folks, that they feel they got bamboozled on the amount needed to begin... Many understood it was already a done deal once money got raised.. not that we raise money to begin the bid process.... Unfortunately when we exceeded the amount that was said to be needed, people got a sort of false sense of hope that dirt began moving the very next day. Mostly just mis-understandings due to the lack of involvement most or all of us have in the process (with the exception of a few folks working a bagillion hours of work a week on this behind the scenes). Its not that they arent using the money we have raised so far.. its actually that the work being done so far is mostly being done for FREE !!! and we just arent getting a press release every time someone makes a phone call ... thats all...

I think most dont mean to criticize though when folks like Glen work for upwards of years to get this going.. it can come off quite rude when you post a 1 liner stating or proposing that you have been bamboozled in any way......

Though the chances of having it in any time of 08 are slim to none.. so what.... look forward to having a nice properly built track in 09 that doesnt need a resurface a few months after opening (cough Miller cough)... It will be worth it in the end...

[The GECCO]

Perhaps it's naive, but my assumption was that if 2/3rds or more of the money has been raised then why not start some amount of the work? If the certainty of the project's completion isn't in question then why wait until all the money has been raised before spending a dime? To the casual observer that seems to just invite unnecessary delay into the process.

What I've gathered from this thread is CAMA saying they're waiting for bids to come in before starting construction while also saying they don't have enough money yet to complete the project. How is the bidding process related to the total amount of money raised if we're already looking for the lowest bid regardless?

I'm not faulting anyone. I know the measly 30 seconds it took for me to write a very small check is nothing in comparison to the work many have put into this project, but denying that the delays and the probability of not racing there this year has played a part in the drying up of contributions is impossible.

Exactly how are we supposed to start construction when the bidding process that will determine WHO will do the work isn't complete? Who does the work?

Through this entire project we have been preparing and updating our estimated budget of what this will cost. The source for our numbers has been people who work for the companies that are doing the bidding and other informed sources. While we have significant reason to believe that we're pretty close to the target cost-wise, not a single bit of it is anything we can act on until we have written bids and have issued contracts to those who will do the work. Additionally, the price of diesel fuel, (a big factor when talking about earth movers) and other commodities have jumped significantly since the bidding process started a few months ago and things are already being adjusted. Until this formal bidding process is complete we will not know FOR SURE exactly how much it will cost to build this thing. Even if it were possible to pick a contractor and start construction tomorrow, it's not very responsible to start a project when you aren't sure you have enough money to complete it.

At this stage we have about $2.8 mil, which is equal to what we estimated was the lowest amount necessary to build a bare-bones facility. Let's assume it turns out we are wildly incompetent and the lowest bids come back at $10 mil, we'd still have options with regards to returning the money that doesn't belong to CAMA (the loans and donations). If we do it your way and spend all the donations before we find out it will cost $10 million to finish, there will be some justifiably angry people. Plus, we'd have a piece of destroyed farmland that would be impossible to re-sell. Hell, even if the bids come back at $2.9 million and we find we can't raise another dime, we'd still be screwed.

The bidding process was started just before the end of '07. Due to many factors, some in our control and others not, it has dragged out. I wish I had a better explanation, but "sh!t happens" and all I can say is that none of us has said "We don't want to go racing, let's see if we can make this take as long as possible".

[DingleBerns]

+1 Glenn, Thanks for all your hard work and the many other faces that will make this happen! I can't wait till '09 to go racing there!

Dingle

[Clarkie]

I say do it once and do it right, even the Miller surface turned to shit as it wasnt done right and the West course was just repaved.......it now has even more bumps that before it was repaved :cry:

Everyone has done a ton of hard work to get it to this point, rushing it to completion now will cause bigger problems (and cost) down the track

[glenngsxr]

Agreed. Let's not press the issue on the new track. It can wait. Plus, Pueblo ain't half bad anymore now that turn 10 is fixed. Glenn #62

[Clarkie]

Agreed. Let's not press the issue on the new track. It can wait. Plus, Pueblo ain't half bad anymore now that turn 10 is fixed. Glenn #62

dude I am loving Pueblo this year, but I am stoked we are at Hastings in a week 8)

[JWinter]

I used to work for a large asphalt company in Denver, and getting bids during the Winter is the best time. Many companies are hungry after winter and usually prices are a tad cheaper, this will be to our advantage.

Glen and all others involved donating THEIR time to this project we owe our gratitude too. Hopefully everybody who has been donating time to the cause gets recognized for it! Maybe a plaque at HPR or something of the sort.

One good thing about the project being pushed back, helps me put a few more $ away to donate again this fall.

[PremiumBlend]

Who is paving HPR? I work for Lafarge, and I know our bid came in higher... but I'm just curious who ended up winning the bid?

And if you say Brennan, I'm NEVER racing at HPR. LOL

[jborky]

Just an observation, but as far as I can tell things were on schedule

<inaccurate and misleading info deleted>

I know club members of CAMA aren't necessarily clients and therefore can't complain too much, but our investments/donations should entitle us to the real story.

It will be done right from here I'm sure and my gatitude goes out to all the people involved in bringing roadracing in CO closer to what it was before I started. We will still see short run returns on this in 09.

[TRK]

Lets run a combined race at Miller with the Utah folks.
Grid with alternating points MOM/MRA/MOM/MRA....
Add the classes that are missing HWSB, LOR, etc....
No Endurance, just MOM 1.5 hour stuff on Sat

I am sure it is a HUGE stretch, but it would be fun...........

[The GECCO]

Jesse - your information is far from accurate and complete. I would appreciate your not spreading mis-information.

[loujr]

+1 for Pueblo! I don't like Brennan either...I sometimes have to work with them...and it's not very much fun...to say the least...don't want to use any words that would get me in trouble!

[Ninja Nate]

Lets run a combined race at Miller with the Utah folks.
Grid with alternating points MOM/MRA/MOM/MRA....
Add the classes that are missing HWSB, LOR, etc....
No Endurance, just MOM 1.5 hour stuff on Sat

I am sure it is a HUGE stretch, but it would be fun...........

If you want to race at Miller, why not just race MOM as well? I guess I just dont get the "combined" grids?

[DingleBerns]

he already does.....

[Dodd]

So am I to assume then that the races slated for HPR
#7- Aug 23rd and 24th
#8- Sep 06th and 07th
#10 Oct 11th and 12th

Will automatically default back to Pueblo with the same dates? The reason I ask is I took the time off for the races 7 months ago and I'm not sure if I can change it.
?
Dodd

[DingleBerns]

No. I believe only the Aug 23-24 will be held at pueblo, the other two races are gone......

Dingle

[The GECCO]

No. I believe only the Aug 23-24 will be held at pueblo, the other two races are gone......

Dingle

Actually, the September 6/7 race has been moved to Pueblo, the others will be cancelled if the track isn't ready in time.

[DingleBerns]

Wow, I must have been drunk at the riders meeting. Thanks Glenn!