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Jim 'smooth' Brewer
July 24th, 2005, 09:57 PM
From the proposed rule change section, it seems there are several racers interested in creating a Formula 40 class. Just for reference, CCS, AFM, and some other clubs run this - the only rule being that you have to be 40 years old or older. Bike size & modification level is unlimited.

Let's hear from those interested and see if we can refine a class proposal!

Budd435
July 25th, 2005, 08:22 AM
I will be 40 in July of next year. Will I have to wait another year (2007) to race in that class? Can I sign up for that class mid year?
Either way, I am for it.

rforsythe
July 25th, 2005, 09:21 AM
That'd be a good question, and something to bring up for the subsequent rules should this make it to fruition. Think of a good way to word it so you can race, and put it to a vote in the rules meeting this winter... Remember, this is a brand new class so the riders will define it.

Bueller999
July 25th, 2005, 10:29 AM
I would imagine since the only rule would be, being 40 years old that should be self expanitory :P :D

dave.gallant
July 25th, 2005, 10:34 AM
So, this is like ROR, but for guys over 40?

Is this going to turn into another Sportsman thread? :)

rforsythe
July 25th, 2005, 11:03 AM
So, this is like ROR, but for guys over 40?

Is this going to turn into another Sportsman thread? :)

Kinda, and possibly. :lol:

IMO this class should have some exclusions. For example, if you are fast enough to place well in ROR, should you be able to ride in Formula 40? I think this class should have trophies and points, and contingency. But ultimately the spirit of the class is to allow older riders a chance to play without getting their paint sucked off by some punk on a mission. Sort of a "run whatcha brung" class with suitability limits like Novice would be ideal I think, but I do think there needs to be some restraint on who can enter - just to make sure some of our old fast farts aren't in there sandbagging for the contingency.

Or is the point of the class to let those who are supposedly "older and more in check with reality" ride no matter how fast they are? I think that's a bit off, but I could be wrong.

dave.gallant
July 25th, 2005, 11:13 AM
Exactly why I am asking what it is...

Anytime we try and legislate morality, we have a hard time. This may be a case of that, however, Jimbo is right - many other clubs around the country have this type of class and maybe we could lift their rule structure directly if there are enough willing competitors.

Everyone should keep in mind that Ricky would be eligible (he has got to be 40 by now? :) ) - so if the intent of the class is for it to be "slower" rather than more "mature", you may have to really think out the rules. (Ricky is very smooth and makes good decisions on the track, but he is by no means slow. FWIW - I am just using him as an example.)

rforsythe
July 25th, 2005, 12:08 PM
The question also begs, would he even race given that this isn't exactly his sort of class? There are lots of races he could enter and win, but he chooses not to. As of late he hasn't even been making all MRA events. So while he "could", I am not sure he "would" so that threat may simply be an unnecessary notion. He is in it to beat fast racers, not go after a bunch of guys who just want a lower-key place to have fun.

dave.gallant
July 25th, 2005, 01:53 PM
If there is no $, then he wouldn't race it.

But that is not really my point. i am just pointing out that "old" doesn't mean "slow".

(note that I am not calling anyone old nor slow in this post. :) )

TommyF
July 25th, 2005, 02:14 PM
I would vote no on making this a slow class. The appeal of the Formula 40 in CCS or WERA is that most of us that are older tend to ride a bit more conservatively/smarter (but still fast) as most of us are beyond the glory days, just out to have fun, and want to make it home to our families in one piece. One of the best ways to get better and faster is to race/ride with better and faster riders.

CCS has Formula 40 which restricts what bike you can run in the class.

WERA has size restrictions for expert, none for novices.

The GECCO
July 25th, 2005, 03:17 PM
I just don't see the need to try and cram yet ANOTHER class into our schedule...we just lost an hour of sunday practice in an effort to make up for RoRU and bring the end of the sunday program a little earlier in the day.

If running a class where the racers are not as full of testosterone is what you're after, consider the MV classes. These have long been considered the "gentleman's" classes in this club.

dave.gallant
July 25th, 2005, 04:03 PM
Modern vintage classes are a blast.

The twins classes are lots of fun too (as long as you are not near Mike and I).

:)

rforsythe
July 25th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Ok, but what about older guys (like Mike Christy, a proponent of this class at least earlier) who want to race something at least sort of current.

I don't see this being a Sunday event, most likely it'd be a Saturday thing. I also think the membership should ratify its existence. Let them decide if they want it to be, knowing full well it would add another 8-lap event to Saturday's lineup.

Scheduling would suck, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a populated class. Hopefully Jim's poll will shed some more light on this in time.

dave.gallant
July 25th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Although I agree with Glenn in that we have options for those who look for a less frenzied race environment than Middleweight Supersport - adding another race on Saturday seems like a reasonable approach if indeed there is enough support.

This existence of this class (like the wonderful Formula II and Formula III classes of old) would hinge on signups. If there are enough people to justify its existance and show support for the class, I am very much in favor of proposing the class and getting the membership involved to decide whether or not the MRA offers it.

Bueller999
July 25th, 2005, 05:15 PM
I know I would not be able to field an MV bike in addition to the bike(s) I am concidering for next year, that is why I proposed this class, as a ride what you brung affair.
There might be some merit to a ROR placement cut off.

Lurch
July 25th, 2005, 06:28 PM
I'm all for this class. Make it a run what you brung class. Also I don't want to see another class where if you are fast you get kicked out. Nov,Am and Sportsman all ready do this so why another class? Formula 40 would give guys that don't want to run ROR another place to go play. Plus it may encourage older riders to come race since they wouldn't have to ride with the young punks in Nov and Am. With that said make it a AM class so 40yr old novices could come play with guys that hopefully know how to ride by now.

Lurch

joe859
July 25th, 2005, 06:52 PM
As a way over 40 novice, I totally agree with what Lurch said. Make it an Am class. Run what ya brung.

joe859
July 25th, 2005, 06:57 PM
deleted repeat post

Bueller999
July 25th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Also I don't want to see another class where if you are fast you get kicked out.


With that said make it a AM class so 40yr old novices could come play with guys that hopefully know how to ride by now.


But Am has a bump rule, are you suggesting that if you've been bumped from Am you can't run this? :-k

Also, is this going to be cross posted to the Yahoo group?

Lurch
July 25th, 2005, 08:38 PM
But Am has a bump rule, are you suggesting that if you've been bumped from Am you can't run this?

No my meaning was make it like ST's and MV which a first year novice can run in it also. I say we call in ROROF. (Race of the Rockies Old Farts)

Lurch

rforsythe
July 25th, 2005, 08:43 PM
But Am has a bump rule, are you suggesting that if you've been bumped from Am you can't run this?

No my meaning was make it like ST's and MV which a first year novice can run in it also. I say we call in ROROF. (Race of the Rockies Old Farts)

Lurch

With a championship trophy you also win an economy-sized bottle of Geritol. :P

Lurch
July 25th, 2005, 08:51 PM
and Depends..


Lurch

Bueller999
July 25th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Depends on what?...........Speak up damit! I can't hear you without my reading glasses!

Spiderman
July 28th, 2005, 12:06 AM
I'll be eligible for this in a couple of years and I'm all for it. 8)

I realize there's been talk of "run whatcha brung" (a la ROR), but I think a GTU/GTO split might help even things out a bit (I know that there are time constraints, so maybe both GTU & GTO could be run in the same race, but start in different waves).

T Baggins
July 28th, 2005, 08:48 AM
I'm against it. Many of our faster racers are over or approaching 40 anyway, so we'll just have another ROR/AMO class which would be redundant.

I'd much rather see a unique, goofy, but fun class where skill and $$ wouldn't necessarily win you the class. I'm thinking FORMULA APE HANGER. Must be a bike classified as a "cruiser" by the manufacturer at the time of production. Handlebars must be at or above shoulder level when seated, and foot controls must be forward of the rider. Maybe you throw a 5-10 year age limit too, to keep costs down...

As far as finding a slot for another class. Saturday would be the day. If SMSportsman doesn't pick up in signups, I would suggest we drop it anyway... That would free up some time.

chrobis
July 28th, 2005, 10:20 PM
Unique? Goofy? Try Boulder Res in May. Hey...

I don't have much racing experience yet, but it's pretty clear already that I will never be in the same league as the young'uns. I personally am in it more for entertainment now than for glory. That's not to say that I'm not competitive, but rather that my motivation is just at a lower level of intensity. There are many reasons for this, and they mostly correlate with age.

I like the ROROF idea - would/could this be a 16 lapper? To keep it from becoming more of the same, how about excluding people from competing in ROR both as an Old Fart and as a real racer (GTU/GTO) on the same weekend?

As far as hardware goes, I say ride the bike that's the most fun, whatever it is. My guess is that by the time someone 'advances' into this bracket, their bike will be much less of a determinant than they are.

Spiderman
July 28th, 2005, 10:46 PM
I'm against it. Many of our faster racers are over or approaching 40 anyway, so we'll just have another ROR/AMO class which would be redundant.Make it an Amateur class (allowing Novices to compete in it), and have it fall under the same rules as AmU and AmO (in relation to ROR):

4.2 Definition of Amateur
...
B. Experts who sign up for Amateur GTO or Amateur GTU races are ineligible for RoR GTO and RoR GTU races during that event.

Lurch
July 29th, 2005, 05:55 AM
It seems to me that people want this class. Sportsman and MWSB errrrr RORU were created because people wanted the class. Adding races that people want to run makes this club money. Having races in which no one signs up is taking up time and space on the schedule.

Lurch

Jon
July 30th, 2005, 07:01 AM
As far as you guys worrying about formula 40 and Mr Orlando taking away your positions, I don't believe you'll have to worry about that because he's about done with the club level stuff except for the contengency races. Notice he hasn't been around much this year? He'll participate only in contingency paying events and I'm sure Formula 40 won't give much of a paycheck. For all you young pups He's actually 48 the same age as My Brewer. Hey maybe we should have formula 50?

Jim 'smooth' Brewer
July 30th, 2005, 04:29 PM
For all you young pups He's actually 48 the same age as My Brewer. Hey maybe we should have formula 50?

Hey, I'm not 48! :cry: (yet).

As reference, here are some existing Formula 40 classes in the US:

- AFM: Rider must be 40 or older - no displacement or modification limits.
- CCS: Lightweight Formula 40 - basically lightweight superbike rules
- CCS: Formula 40 - Am & Ex - basically heavyweight superbike rules
- CMRA: Same as CCS
- WSMC: Lightweight Formula 40 - formula 2 rules (LWGP)
- WSMC: Formula 40 - open displacement & modification
- OMRRA: doesn't do it
- WMRRA: doesn't do it
- WERA: doesn't do it (I didn't find it in the rulebook)

I for one am in favor of an unlimited GP rules Formula 40, such as Lurch and others have suggested. We can vote for the class during the rules change process, see if the board will ratify it, then figure out the schedule before next year.

rforsythe
July 30th, 2005, 04:38 PM
I'd like to see it ratified, but with the option of running GTU and GTO classes if the signups warrant it. Both classes would run simultaneously, with a two wave start. Now, if 5 riders participate in the class (unlikely, but it could happen) we wouldn't run two classes, but if we get enough it might be nice to have the two separate distinctions just to make it competetive for everyone. *shrug* Just thinkin. I think the first year will tell a lot, and maybe we split it into GTU/GTO later on after we can accurately gauge the results...

T Baggins
September 26th, 2005, 01:06 PM
What about "Formula 45"? Combined rider age and bike age must be at least 45 years. That way younger guys could compete but must be on older equipment. Old guys like Jim B could run whatever they want but I'd have to run a Modern Vintage bike...

This would add some flair and open it up to more competitors.

rforsythe
September 26th, 2005, 01:15 PM
What about "Formula 45"? Combined rider age and bike age must be at least 45 years. That way younger guys could compete but must be on older equipment. Old guys like Jim B could run whatever they want but I'd have to run a Modern Vintage bike...

This would add some flair and open it up to more competitors.

Now that would be interesting... Would also give the Modern Vintage racers another place to play and not get left behind (unless Orlando shows up on his shiny new 6RR, since he could run a bike from the future and still be legal :lol: ).

dave.gallant
September 26th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Wow - thats actually a pretty cool idea...

Spiderman
September 26th, 2005, 01:44 PM
Wow - thats actually a pretty cool idea...I agree! =D>


(unless Orlando shows up on his shiny new 6RR, since he could run a bike from the future and still be legal :lol: ).Make it an Amateur class and put it under the same rule as AmU and AmO, which discludes ROR participants.

rforsythe
September 26th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Actually as long as the class doesn't pay out money or have bike contingency $$, I wouldn't worry too much about the top guys coming in and spoiling the fun. However I think other contingency (tire, gas, blah blah) should be there.

TBSgraphics
September 26th, 2005, 01:51 PM
and add a displacment/weight relationship also, the heavy the rider the larger displacment, light riders have to ride smaller bikes...