Practice price

[polar x]

Glen, are we paying for Sat morning practice if we are racing Sat afternoon in anything besides Endurance?

It seems to me that since we are racing the SS classes, that should include morn practice just like Sunday race day.

For those racers who don't register for a race on Sat I understand they should pay for practice, just like Sunday.

[T Baggins]

$50 just as before.

You actually get more practice time under the new format.

[polar x]

So where is the practice time for the racers? If we don't pay the $50 does that mean we don't get practice before the races?

[The GECCO]

That's correct.

[TBSgraphics]

That's correct.

so racer that had races moved to saturday under your new rules are screwed out of partice time for the race, where the ones on sunday get free pratice with thier races...

so not only are many racers upset at the classes being moved to saturday, due to many of them work on saturdays and such, but now your charging them for the pratice also... and this was suppost to be a good thing? not for the racers on saturday I guess....

[TBSgraphics]

$50 just as before.

You actually get more practice time under the new format.

NOT as before, before the day of YOUR races you got morning pratice as part of the normal race fee's, but now you have to pay for pratice if your racing on satuday??

[Wild Cheetah 612]

We've discussed this and all the scenarios in Board Meetings and other forums. Most racers who race Supersport show up for practice on Saturday anyway. Then under the new schedule will stick around for races Sunday when practice is included. So basically, nothing changes as far as how much the vast majority of racers normally pay.

[T Baggins]

Yes, this has made "paying for practice" essentially mandatory - but nobody says you have to practice. I never do and look how damn fast I am.

I suggest we cancel practice altogether so nobody has to pay the UNBELIEVABLY INSANELY OUTRAGEOUS PRICE OF $50... and then to be fair, we should cancel practice on Sunday too - so nobody has an unfair advantage.

Chris, Frank - this doesn't even affect you guys because you practiced on Saturday anyway. Surely you have better things to do with your time - like maybe putting together your TZ's?

If someone that this ACTUALLY affects is concerned about it, I'm sure they'll let us know.

[The GECCO]

This is not a huge change. The number of people who run classes that have been moved to Saturday who were NOT already practicing on Saturday is very small. Those few people are getting the short end of the stick, but these changes were made to make things better for the majority of the club and it's impossible to please everyone.

No one was forcing people to participate in (and pay for) Saturday practice in the past, yet most everyone did. Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?

[TBSgraphics]

[quote="T Baggins"] Surely you have better things to do with your time - like maybe putting together your TZ's?

quote]

Why yes, thats a great idea, but waiting for many,many parts including my crank, so in the mean time I spend too much time on the forums, posting non-sense posting and finding ways to waste your time replying with more non-sense posting :P

and in the last 10 years of racing w the mra, never ran any pratice time on saturday,
did the endurance /pratice/race but never sat morning pratice...

extra pratice time is for cheaters.... :lol:

[clowe]

I think this thing keeps getting worse and worse. I am not a rider rep but I have had not less than 15 different people complain to me about the new schedule and now this. So, since they can not grow a set to post something up here I am going to speak my mind in hopes that someone on the board will read this objectively and not as an attack on anyone. I just have three simple questions and then I will expound.

First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?

Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?

Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?

Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.

Glenn, you wrote to me months ago that this schedule change would help to make racing more affordable for a new novice racer. How is that true when that same novice racer would have only come to track on Sunday and gotten practice for free, now they race on Saturday and have to pay for practice. The math does not add up. Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.

Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.

AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

To the board, you guys are great and I know you work very hard for very little. I hope you can read this without getting defensive and maybe take another look at what you are planning to do. Who knows, maybe if practice is included in bying races on Saturday (like it is on Sunday) the grids will have even more racers.

I am looking forward to direct answers to m questions.

Thanks,
Crash

[dragos13]

Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.
Thanks,
Crash

Being a novice that just moved up to expert, I would like to ask something about your post: Are you assuming that novice racers will be a danger to you because we dont practice and wont know the new layout? Or, is it that you think we will be too cheap to pay for the practice, get out there and not know whats going on? How are we going to be more of a danger just because the club (as they have always done) is going to charge $50 for saturday practice?

Like you also said, most novices didn't even come out on saturdays. This would mean they would still be a danger Sunday as well. Maybe I'm just not following the logic behind this comment.

[JimWilson29]

My interpretation of what Crash is saying is that a first year expert's lesser experience combined with the lack of practice on a Saturday morning could result in a negative scenario in the supersport races which are now scheduled early Saturday afternoon vs. that same first year expert participating in two practice sessions on Sunday morning before going out and competing in a ss, sbk, etc race.

[The GECCO]

First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?
I suppose the argument could be made that having practice makes racing safer, but IMO it isn't a driving factor behind having Sunday morning practice.


Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?
The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday


Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?
It isn't as easy as just pressing a button and having the number pop up. If you would like access to the records to determine this let me know and we can work something out.


Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.
What makes you think only half of the grid will have seen the new turn 10?


Glenn, you wrote to me months ago that this schedule change would help to make racing more affordable for a new novice racer. How is that true when that same novice racer would have only come to track on Sunday and gotten practice for free, now they race on Saturday and have to pay for practice. The math does not add up.
Sure it does. The majority of novices show up on Saturday and pay for practice as it is. Then they have to stay (overnight) in order to race on Sunday. If someone is only interested in racing the novice classes they can now come on Saturday and get all their racing done, save a night's worth of expenses and still have Sunday to mow the lawn. You are overlooking the fact that now that they "have" to pay for practice on Saturday isn't an additional expense for most.


Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.
Again, we are talking about the majority here. While I don't have the numbers, simply looking at the track on Saturday morning will tell anyone that MOST people are out there anyway. So, if a rider voluntarily paid for Saturday practice in 2007, I don't see how they can argue that they deserve free practice in 2008 just because we re-arranged the schedule.


Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.
You campaigned for rain tires on the basis of it being a safety issue. It is not. Racing in the rain with rain tires allows you go faster, it does not make it safer. And, again, that "$450 worth of practice" is not a NEW expense for most of the riders, because they are already participating.


AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?
Because the original (and current) reason for creating the endurance races was to raise money. This is why, to this day, NO ONE gets comped endurance racing. We knew that if someone was in a position of having to choose between paying for practice in the morning and running endurance (w/o any practice available) that most would not sign up for endurance. So, the "endurance racers only" practice sessions were added.


So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.
I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

[Clarkie]

The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

I like the new move, like Glen said there is no scramble to change from DOT's to slicks and back, we get home a little earlier Sunday night, and it means that we can have SS tear downs EVERY Saturday evening like at the Pueblo double header, in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

[JimWilson29]

...in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

that is mighty kind of you.

[TBSgraphics]

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.
I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

The person racing the classes(NOT endurance, only talking about sprints) on saturday have already paid to be on track for saturday and the pratice only rider has not and should be charged,
WHO to say that the person racing on saturday is only going to race saturday, I knew of a few in the past only raced endurnacne and left due to personal, religius or other reason and were not there for sunday,
So the clubs is now going to charge them double for what racers on sunday get?

one fix could be to charge for sunday pratice also, then everyone get the same treatment

[giovannir6]

Man sounds to me like everyone needs to just twist the sh!t out of a bike, or get laid, so we can all calm the fook down.

For the love of God has everyone forgotten that this is club level racing?

Big thanks to the board, you guys are trying to make improvements and that goes a long way with me.

[The GECCO]

The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

I like the new move, like Glen said there is no scramble to change from DOT's to slicks and back, we get home a little earlier Sunday night, and it means that we can have SS tear downs EVERY Saturday evening like at the Pueblo double header, in fact I will pull my engine out right after the SS race and just start tearing it down to the crank, that way I can finish mine and help tear everyone elses bikes down as well 8)

Nah, just take it out and leave in my pit. We'll tear it down while you're putting in the SBK motor for Sunday!

[Clarkie]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back :D

One out, one in, my goal is to do it in 60 minutes or less ;)

[The GECCO]

So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.
I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

The person racing the classes(NOT endurance, only talking about sprints) on saturday have already paid to be on track for saturday and the pratice only rider has not and should be charged,
WHO to say that the person racing on saturday is only going to race saturday, I knew of a few in the past only raced endurnacne and left due to personal, religius or other reason and were not there for sunday,
So the clubs is now going to charge them double for what racers on sunday get?

No, Frank, read the schedule again. Someone who only wants to race endurance and still gets their endurance practice after the sprint races.

However, what Chris is proposing (unless I'm completely misunderstanding him) is this:

Rider A enters three races, all on Sunday
Rider B enters three races, one on Saturday and two on Sunday.
Both pay the same entry fees, but Rider A has to pay for Saturday practice and Rider B doesn't.

Does that seem fair?


one fix could be to charge for sunday pratice also, then everyone get the same treatment

Now who's making it more expensive?

[The GECCO]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back :D


Well, the only tools I own are a hammer, a chisel and a plasma cutter. After I'm done with the tear down there'll be more parts than there were to start with, so you're all set!

[JimWilson29]

How about you hook the transponder system up to the entry fee billing system and charge like a dollar a practice lap to the riders credit card (unless it was stolen like mine). :D

[The GECCO]

How about you hook the transponder system up to the entry fee billing system and charge like a dollar a practice lap to the riders credit card (unless it was stolen like mine). :D

Further incentive to improve - a sliding scale! The lower the lap time, the lower the charge!

[Clarkie]

sweet! Just as long as I get ALL the parts back :D


Well, the only tools I own are a hammer, a chisel and a plasma cutter. After I'm done with the tear down there'll be more parts than there were to start with, so you're all set!

well that's what I use to build engines so you should be all set :D

[gsnyder828]

Well, the only tools I own are a hammer, a chisel and a plasma cutter.

Well that makes the Factory 5 build all even more impressive :shock:

[clowe]

(giovannir6 wrote)


Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.
Thanks,
Crash

(giovannir6 wrote) Being a novice that just moved up to expert, I would like to ask something about your post: Are you assuming that novice racers will be a danger to you because we dont practice and wont know the new layout? Or, is it that you think we will be too cheap to pay for the practice, get out there and not know whats going on? How are we going to be more of a danger just because the club (as they have always done) is going to charge $50 for saturday practice?

(giovannir6 wrote) Like you also said, most novices didn't even come out on saturdays. This would mean they would still be a danger Sunday as well. Maybe I'm just not following the logic behind this comment.

(Crash wrote) OK, here is what I was saying. First, I was not attacking the novices that have just moved up to expert but the fact is that some novices don't have the same amount of experience as some of the experts. Some novices have more, it kind of goes both ways. It's not that you don't practice or that you will be too cheap to practice. All I am saying is that if you racing on Saturdays in the SS classes that practice should be a part of signing up for those races. If you are not racing in Saturdays SS races then you should pay for practice. That seems pretty simple and make it much more like a Sunday schedule.

(Crash wrote) Also, I didn't say that most novices don't show up on Saturday. In fact, I think a lot of novice racers show up on Saturday and I think that is awesome. But, as a novice rider, under last years schedule you could show up Sunday morning, practice for free, race in four or five races (if you have a 600) and go home. That option does not exist any more and now to race on Saturday in sprint races you have to pay to practice. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

(Crash wrote) To Glenn or any other board member.

clowe wrote:

First question for the board, is one of the reason we have practice on Sunday morning for safety?

(Glenn wrote) I suppose the argument could be made that having practice makes racing safer, but IMO it isn't a driving factor behind having Sunday morning practice.

(Crash wrote) OK, so what is the driving factor behind Sunday morning practice? Why does that not apply to Saturday morning practice for Saturday racers?

Crash Quote:
Second question for the board, did we make this schedule change at all to help racing to be more affordable, bring new racers in and hopefully grow the club?

(Glenn wrote) The main drivers behind these changes were to use our time on Saturday more efficiently by spreading the classes out more. The way they are now arranged does three things 1) it lessens tire swaps from slicks to DOT's for SS racers 2) it allows current riders to enter more classes without having multiple back-to-back races 3) it will get us out of the track and on the road home earlier on Sunday

(Crash wrote) So am I to understand from your answer to my second question that cost was not a consideration when making the schedule change?

Quote:
Last question for the board, can the members please see the hard number (that I know we have) about who practiced and raced endurance on Saturday vs. who raced on Sunday?

(Glenn wrote) It isn't as easy as just pressing a button and having the number pop up. If you would like access to the records to determine this let me know and we can work something out.


(Crash wrote) About the hard numbers, it would be great to see an average of Saturday practice sign ups compared to endurance sign ups to Sunday race sign ups. Could you provide that for me at some point?

Quote:
Let me paint a picture, you are on the grid for the mwss race, there are 30 bikes behind you and only half of them have been out of the track and have seen the new turn 10 at Pueblo. It is the first race of the year and every novice who moved up from last year is just itching to show you how fast they are. Does this scare anyone? Does this sound very safe. To the board this issue does effect me and I am at a loss here.

(Glenn wrote) What makes you think only half of the grid will have seen the new turn 10?


(Crash wrote) Glenn, if they don't practice they will not have go through the new turn 10 at speed. I know everyone will pay for practice just like I know everyone would buy raintires if you allowed them in SS. I am just looking for some consistency on cost from the club. When it comes to SS, some things are not acceptable expenses and some are. My point here is the same as before, consistency to the members.

Glenn, do we know it is the "majority" of Novice riders. I come back to the numbers. Also, in the past a novice racer could show up Sunday morning, practice for free, racing in four races and go home. Now, that is no longer possible and the expense is greater. I still think this will not grow your shrinking club.

Quote:
Glenn, you also asked this, "Why should those same people now get free practice (and the club lose the revenues) simply because some of their classes have been moved to Saturday?" The very simple answer is because they did not have a choice in the matter. The board made the call to change the schedue, not the members. This person used to get practice for free, why should we now charge them? That is not making racing more affordable.

(Glenn wrote) Again, we are talking about the majority here. While I don't have the numbers, simply looking at the track on Saturday morning will tell anyone that MOST people are out there anyway. So, if a rider voluntarily paid for Saturday practice in 2007, I don't see how they can argue that they deserve free practice in 2008 just because we re-arranged the schedule.

(Crash wrote) They do deserve free practice because now they are racing as though it was a Sunday with sprint races. I am not saying that everyone should get practice for free on Saturday. But those racing in the SS races should get practice. Maybe they just get one or two sessions and not all four. I just think that if they are signing up for races on Saturday that some practice or warm-up should be included.

Quote:
Also, everyone knows that I brought up rain tires for SS many times. The board and rules committee has always said that allowing rain tires would drive up cost for SS racers. The board said that all racers would feel they needed to go and buy a $350 set of tires. But now all SS racers are going to feel the need to go and buy $450 worth of practice. Again, I'm not as smart as Tony and my math is not adding up.

(Glenn wrote) You campaigned for rain tires on the basis of it being a safety issue. It is not. Racing in the rain with rain tires allows you go faster, it does not make it safer. And, again, that "$450 worth of practice" is not a NEW expense for most of the riders, because they are already participating.

(Crash wrote) My campaign for rain tires was not just for safety though that was part of it. It was for better racing which is good for the club and good for the sport. I was shot down because of the $$$ that go with buying rain tires. I was shot down because they said that everyone would then need to buy them and it would be unfair for the club to make everyone do that. BUT, now all SS riders have to pay for practice.

Quote:
AND, why did we have endurance practice in the past Was it because the board felt if might be a little safer if the racers got to see the track and do a few laps before they went out in anger?

(Glenn wrote) Because the original (and current) reason for creating the endurance races was to raise money. This is why, to this day, NO ONE gets comped endurance racing. We knew that if someone was in a position of having to choose between paying for practice in the morning and running endurance (w/o any practice available) that most would not sign up for endurance. So, the "endurance racers only" practice sessions were added.

(Crash wrote) Regarding endurance practice, who does the the same not apply for people racing in SS?

Quote:
So, I think this is about all I have to say. I think if people sign up for races on Saturday then practice should be apart of that. If people just want to practice then they pay for practice, that seems pretty simple to me.

(Glenn wrote) I disagree. Why should someone who doesn't own a bike that is legal for any of the Saturday classes be required to pay for something that another rider else gets for free because he owns a different bike?

(Crash wrote) I think I will use the board's logic when I say that that rider made a choice to buy a bike that is not legal from racing on Saturday.

Ok, I will shut up and I will try and leave that as all I have on the matter.

[clowe]

Glenn, I don' know if this is what Chris is saying or not,

However, what Chris is proposing (unless I'm completely misunderstanding him) is this:

Rider A enters three races, all on Sunday
Rider B enters three races, one on Saturday and two on Sunday.
Both pay the same entry fees, but Rider A has to pay for Saturday practice and Rider B doesn't.

Does that seem fair?

It does not seem fair, I think this is how it should work....

Rider A signs up for 2 races on Sunday only and practice on Saturday
Rider B signs up for 1 race on Saturday and 2 races on Sunday

Rider A should pay for practice on Saturday
Rider B should not pay for practice on Saturday

Or, just give rider B one practice session right before lunch or something. It should be like the endurance race.

[giovannir6]

hey Crash quit miss quoting me, or at least do it with some flare.

All I said was everybody needs some cat box, then we should discuss the new schedule.

[Coop]

All I can say as a potentially new novice racer having to pay for a little practice time due to the fact my race got moved to Saturday versus the old schedule makes racing even more undesireable as far as expenses goes......

[The GECCO]

Glenn, I don' know if this is what Chris is saying or not,


However, what Chris is proposing (unless I'm completely misunderstanding him) is this:

Rider A enters three races, all on Sunday
Rider B enters three races, one on Saturday and two on Sunday.
Both pay the same entry fees, but Rider A has to pay for Saturday practice and Rider B doesn't.

Does that seem fair?

It does not seem fair, I think this is how it should work....

Rider A signs up for 2 races on Sunday only and practice on Saturday
Rider B signs up for 1 race on Saturday and 2 races on Sunday

Rider A should pay for practice on Saturday
Rider B should not pay for practice on Saturday

So, all you've done is taken a race away from Rider A?

You're proposing:
Rider A pays a total of $200 ($150 for 2 races and $50 for Saturday practice)
Rider B pays a total of $170 for 3 races and gets Saturday practice included

That seems fair to you?

[clowe]

What I am saying is that Rider A does not have a SS bike so there are no races for them on Saturday except Endurance which is think is fine the way it is and should remain it's own thing. Glenn, you are right about this not being any different from the costs last year when paying for $50 for practice but last year we didn't sprint race on Saturday.......

So, let me try and be very clear with what I am proposing. If you sign up for SS sprint races on Saturday it should include some sort of practice session just like the sprint races on Sunday. I don't think we should just give practice to everyone for free. As I suggested, maybe just the last practice session is open to all SS riders who are racing that day. That is what I have been talking about the whole time.

So Glenn, to answer you question, yes, that does seem fair. With my idea thought, rider A gets to practice all morning and rider B only gets to take part in one chosen (by the MRA board) practice of Saturday morning. I think this way most people (like me) will still pay to practice all morning but it does not penalize the people who used to race SS races on Sunday with no practice.

To be clear again, my idea is that if you sign up for a race (other than endurance) on Saturday then you get one practice session. If you sign up for no races on Saturday or want to practice more than one session they you pay $50. This could be a great compromise.

[polar x]

F^@k why does everything I say turn into a SHIT STORM :roll:

What Crash is saying is what I agree with. (thanks Crash) I never said it, I was just asking about how it was going to work.

TONY I don't run sat morn practice but a few times a season. I run Endurance instead and all the races on Sunday. On Sun I did practice 1 sometimes 2 sessions and that's it because it was included in my fees.

GLENN What I think is fair, simply put. You race in anything other than Endurance on Sat you get the same benefits as you do for Sun's races and that's FREE practice. You choose to run Endurance then you pay for practice Sat morn if you want it. Just like Sat has ALWAYS BEEN. That is why some people signed up for Endurance was to use that as a better round of practice and then the race. By charging them for practice Sat morn with their races perhaps that will make some not race Endurance.

EVERYONE ELSE Getting laid is a great idea, Rain tires in SS is an even better idea, the schedule is fine with me its the fee's I have issue with, loosen your panties people, and lastly where are the novices and newbs who have a opinion about this?? There must be more than 2 of you out there.

[JimWilson29]

Hey Chris has your wife seen your Avatar pic? :lol:

[polar x]

Hey Chris has your wife seen your Avatar pic? :lol:


LOL yes and she thinks she's hot too. :D

[DingleBerns]

EVERYONE ELSE Getting laid is a great idea, Rain tires in SS is an even better idea, the schedule is fine with me its the fee's I have issue with, loosen your panties people, and lastly where are the novices and newbs who have a opinion about this?? There must be more than 2 of you out there.

I'm going to be there no matter what....your already putting out hundreds if not thousands of dollars each race weekend, what is $50 more...? But I did endurance and practice last year so my "fees" will not change...so I guess that is a biased statement....

just my 2 cents....

[cakake]

Rider A enters three races, all on Sunday
Rider B enters three races, one on Saturday and two on Sunday.
Both pay the same entry fees, but Rider A has to pay for Saturday practice and Rider B doesn't.

Does that seem fair?


Well, if you're going to come up with a hypothetical situation, let's include all the potential options. You left out the person who only races on Saturday. This person pays the same entry fees as someone who races only on Sunday, yet doesn't get any practice. He (or she) has to pay extra to get what a racer on Sunday gets.

So, if you just race on Saturday, you get less track time for your money than if you just race on Sunday. Let's be honest, that seems unfair to me.

Now, my Mom used to tell me "Life's not fair". This might adversely affect me (since I sometimes only race on 1 day, and it might be Saturday this year), but frankly, I don't care. I know the board is trying to do what's best for the club, and I'm willing to try this out and see how well it works. It can always be changed if it's a problem for enough people.


Eric

[motobum]

i would like to say that after completing my first season in the mra i made it to every race, but i did not make it to every saturday.

if the goal is to make it easy for new racers why not just move the novice races to saturday. i understand that it would not be ideal for experts racing AMU and AMO.

but i do not believe the goal was to make it easier for new racers. the goal was to make it easier for the experts. ie swapping slicks/dot, people that are already commited to staying a whole weekend, etc...

[kcecil]

As a perennial novice who is slow and needs all the practice he can get, I'll throw my 2 cents in:

Last year, I did Sat practice and only End races so I wouldn't have to spend the night, had lower entry fees ($100), and could be home on Sunday. From the time side, I like this new schedule as I'll be able to run novice races and still be home Sunday.

However, it does seem unfair that I must pay for Morning Practice and two sprint races when someone who races two sprint races on Sunday does not pay for Morning Practice.

Hypothetical novice A who practices Saturday morning and races NovU and NovO will pay $220.
Hypothetical expert B who practices Sunday morning and races STGTO and STGTU pays $170.

It does appear from the schedule that as in the past, there will be more practice time (1 session more?) on Saturday morning than on Sunday morning, so perhaps a discounted Saturday practice could be offered to those racing Sprints on Saturday, say $20 instead of $50.

[Wild Cheetah 612]

And they say women are bitchy... :roll:

We worked on this new schedule for months, working a zillion different scenarios and taking into account everyone's needs and wants. We came up with this new schedule to: 1) allow novices racing only in novice to have to come on only one day, racing amateur means you are working the next step, 2) help out the expert racers with all their many tire changes by categorizing their races into different days, 3) help all racers by spreading out races that "like bikes" ride to lessen back to back racing, and 4) make as many people as happy as possible.

Fact remains, we couldn't please everyone. And believe me, we tried.
Fact remains, we also must consider the financial health of the club, which means we have to charge for Saturday practice.

I know change is hard, but let's give it a try :wink:

[DingleBerns]

I just have one question...Is this whole discussion about a $50 fee? or am I missing something?

[dave.gallant]

I just have one question...Is this whole discussion about a $50 fee? or am I missing something?

If you race on Saturday only, you pay $50 to practice.

If you race on Sunday only, you don't pay $50 to practice.

[DingleBerns]

That's what I thought....thanks Dave.

[dragos13]

Bottom line, if you want to run Saturday practice you pay $50. Just like it was last year.

[TBSgraphics]

Bottom line, if you want to run Saturday practice you pay $50. Just like it was last year.

LAst year there was NO sprint races on sat,
IF I only race 1 race say LWGP, last year I paided for the race, and before the race I got to pratice as part of my enrtry fee,
THIS year I have to pay for the race and the pratice fee to race the same race at double the cost of last year.

This disscussion has nothing to do with if you want to just pratice on saturday, Yes pay the fee, BUT if you are racing a saturday race, you also HAVE to pay for pratice before your race, when last year(and this year for sunday) practice icncluded with your entry fee...

[polar x]

Bottom line, if you want to run Saturday practice you pay $50. Just like it was last year.

If Saturday race day was the same as last year you could say "just like last year". But we are not comparing apples to apples this season.

Change to the bottom line is if you only run SS races on Sat and not Sunday you now don't get the "included" practice that you got on Sunday.

So the Saturday only novice racer now pays more than he did on Sunday.


For the record this does not affect me at all, I rarely ever run sat morn practice but instead do endurance and even when I got it for free I did not use it much. I am here to have fun not be competitive. But if this was done to allow a NoV to come out for one day and go home, and make their day cheap, then this is not the answer. I love the schedule.

[dragos13]

Yeah I agree that from a financial standpoint, novices received the short end of the stick.

Last year, just like this year, gives sunday practice for free. Its only two sessions and most people missed the first session anyways. For people running Novice on saturday, it sucks for them. For people running SS on saturday, you dont HAVE to pay for practice.

I do like the idea that if you run sprint races on Saturday, maybe give the rider 1 free round of practice. If you want all the practice time (which has actually increased from last year) then pay the $50. Is there even an option to have these changes made or are we all just wasting our breathes?

[dave.gallant]

Or, have Tawny initial the tech sticker on the rider's first Saturday practice as they go out (as has been done in the past for other reasons)

If it is initialed on Saturday, that rider can't practice Sunday.

If it is not initialed on Saturday (meaning they did not practice on Saturday), they can practice on Sunday.

If they want to practice both days, pay $50.

[polar x]

The board could change it if they thought is was the right to thing to do. They made the decision without our input so they could change it again without our input.

Personally I think that is the fairer way to go. Course then you have to police it, which with transponders should be doable. But it is a step in the right direction.

[polar x]

If it is initialed on Saturday, that rider can't practice Sunday.

If it is not initialed on Saturday (meaning they did not practice on Saturday), they can practice on Sunday.

If they want to practice both days, pay $50.

Why should they have to pay for Sat morning practice for racing the same races as last year, on Sunday, that got them free practice last year. When they split the sunday sched, this year, into 2 days?

[dave.gallant]

If it is initialed on Saturday, that rider can't practice Sunday.

If it is not initialed on Saturday (meaning they did not practice on Saturday), they can practice on Sunday.

If they want to practice both days, pay $50.

Why should they have to pay for Sat morning practice for racing the same races as last year, on Sunday, that got them free practice last year. When they split the sunday sched, this year, into 2 days?

It is a simple suggestion:

Sunday practice is 3 or 4 sessions total over the last few years.

You {could} have those 3 or 4 sessions total on Saturday, or you {could} have them on Sunday.

Since the race weekend is now split in two, you {could} decide for yourself when you wanted to use your "free" practice time, but you {could} not have them both days and get double the practice time you got last year.

If you want to double your practice time, pay the $50 and stop whining.

[dragos13]

I guess to make it more like last year, if you have sprints on Saturday, you get two practice sessions for free on Saturday. Just as you would if the race was on Sunday, and much like if you race endurance, you get endurance practice for free. If you want the full saturday session, pay $50. I never really thought of the novices who only run novice races. They pretty much have to pay for the practice in order to be on a bike before the actually warm up lap. Since sunday practice remained the same, then Sunday practice should remain free.

Does that sound fair to everyone?

[dave.gallant]

I guess to make it more like last year, if you have sprints on Saturday, you get two practice sessions for free on Saturday. Just as you would if the race was on Sunday, and much like if you race endurance, you get endurance practice for free. If you want the full saturday session, pay $50. I never really thought of the novices who only run novice races. They pretty much have to pay for the practice in order to be on a bike before the actually warm up lap. Since sunday practice remained the same, then Sunday practice should remain free.

Does that sound fair to everyone?

I don't race anything but Supersport.

Why should I pay $50 to practice on Saturday where if I raced Superbike, I would get my practice free?

( this is the question that is being asked )

[dragos13]

I guess to make it more like last year, if you have sprints on Saturday, you get two practice sessions for free on Saturday. Just as you would if the race was on Sunday, and much like if you race endurance, you get endurance practice for free. If you want the full saturday session, pay $50. I never really thought of the novices who only run novice races. They pretty much have to pay for the practice in order to be on a bike before the actually warm up lap. Since sunday practice remained the same, then Sunday practice should remain free.

Does that sound fair to everyone?

I don't race anything but Supersport.

Why should I pay $50 to practice on Saturday where if I raced Superbike, I would get my practice free?

( this is the question that is being asked )

I said give 2 free rounds for anyone with a sprint race on saturday. I never said you should pay. Two rounds of practice is what you would get last year, and what you would get if you run SuperBike. if you need or want more, pay the $50.

[DingleBerns]

How many of you that are against paying a whole $50 would actually not practice if it were to stand as is?

and then...

How many of you would pay the whole $50 to practice if it were to stand as is?

my guess is, people are still going to pay no matter what but yes you still will have those that will not just to show a point. But it's their loss...

[Clarkie]

But it's their loss...

nice attitude Dingle

[polar x]

How many of you that are against paying a whole $50 would actually not practice if it were to stand as is?

and then...

How many of you would pay the whole $50 to practice if it were to stand as is?

my guess is, people are still going to pay no matter what but yes you still will have those that will not just to show a point. But it's their loss...

Derek I almost never paid for practice since I started racing. I have a different reason for why I race than most. But regardless of why I didn't, the point is I did not and would not. I can afford it, that's not my issue, but some others may not. It sounds like you are fortunate, like me, that money is not the issue for you. But for new racers and old ones too, it may be, and for them this deal is not a good thing.

A limited session seems fairer to me than just saying tuff shit pay it and deal with it. That's not whats best for the club. They should be concerned with keeping racers and getting more in, this seems to me to be counter productive to that goal.


But it's their loss...
Actually it could very well be OUR loss....

[The GECCO]

This will obviously come up at the meeting tonight, if anyone besides the typical dozen wants to attend.

In other words, if we have a quorum, something might get voted on

[Wild Cheetah 612]

The board ...made the decision without our input so they could change it again without our input.
That's not true. I made many phone calls to racers and asked thier input. One in particular, commenting on this thread is Clarkie.


I guess to make it more like last year, if you have sprints on Saturday, you get two practice sessions for free on Saturday. Just as you would if the race was on Sunday, and much like if you race endurance, you get endurance practice for free. If you want the full saturday session, pay $50.
Nice idea, Casey. The only problem with that is control and monitoring. It's a lot harder than you think.


But if this was done to allow a NoV to come out for one day and go home, and make their day cheap, then this is not the answer. I love the schedule.
The way we approached the single day novice issue was our notice that the majority of novices (not all, but most) come out to the races on Saturday, pay for their practice and spend the day. Then they must spend money on hotel rooms and eating out (probably another $100) and return for Sunday. So if they can get their whole race weekend in one day, even with having to pay for practice, then they actually save money.
Glad you love the schedule!



I don't race anything but Supersport.

Why should I pay $50 to practice on Saturday where if I raced Superbike, I would get my practice free?
This situation affects so few people. It doesn't even affect you because of your wonderful work with the website and forums, your racing is comped. We spent a lot of time researching and devising this schedule and think it will be better for the majority of racers. If it doesn't work, you can be sure we'll change it, but at least give it a chance.

[cosp600rr]

I propose that everybody pays for practice but your practice fee is based on how many races you do. The more races you do the cheaper it is. It kind of an incentive to do more races. Then you could have the same number of practices on saterday and sunday. Just a thought. Flame away

[T Baggins]

I propose that everybody pays for practice but your practice fee is based on how many races you do. The more races you do the cheaper it is. It kind of an incentive to do more races. Then you could have the same number of practices on saterday and sunday. Just a thought. Flame away

It becomes an administrative nightmare to keep track of that sort of stuff. Keep it simple, stupid - is our motto.

Glenn is checking data and actual signups, etc. and it will be discussed tonight.

[froth]

Geeze! My head is spinning all over! I'm still trying to figure out what to race, and when to practice. personally, I enjoyed my schedule of lazing around Saturday, getting things ready, practicing for Endurance, Racing Endurance, drinking beers, BBQ ing, etc, and practicing, and sprinting on Sunday.
Time goes on, and change is inevetable, so let's have a good discussion tonight. Remember. Our board is made of VERY dedicated people who put a lot of time in to this whole process. If you think the money they make helps, ask them how many hours they put in each month. I don't know about anyone else, but I won't even sleep on the job for what it breaks down to for them! Our board rocks, so let's keep it civil.(If we can't I'm good for an old school gang style fight, but remember, I'll have just eaten, so close in, my breath.......)

[cosp600rr]

The practice price could all be set up online. Surely somebody knows how to make a program that could tell you your practice price when you do the online sign up before the race. If you wait to sign up for your races at the track then you have to pay a set fee for practice no matter how many races you do. Then its all taken care of online when you sign up. All that would have to be decided is how much to charge.

[cosp600rr]

sorry if that came out sarcastic. I just reread what I wrote and that was not my intention.

[giovannir6]

why dont we charge for Saturday & Sunday practice? financial health and all that.

or

why dont we trim down the number of rider reps or comped races for rider reps and let everyone practice for free on both days?

[motobum]

The practice price could all be set up online. Surely somebody knows how to make a program that could tell you your practice price when you do the online sign up before the race. If you wait to sign up for your races at the track then you have to pay a set fee for practice no matter how many races you do. Then its all taken care of online when you sign up. All that would have to be decided is how much to charge.

i think this is a good idea

[loujr]

Would it work if the fee for practice was cut in half?

[Coop]

Everyone talks about the MRA is down on new racers....Surely we can see why this is with the growing cost of everything in racing! This paying for a little time to practice to make sure your bike is working properly will make more than just a few wonder if it's really worth it!!! The club will not grow without new blood plain and simple.

[cosp600rr]

I think they could accually make the price of practice cheaper than 50 because everybody has to pay. Then the mra gets the same money or more from practice and everybody that does saterday practice anyway would get it cheaper. The only people that would be upset with this is the ones who never did sat practice . Now there price would go up a little. But if those people are the same people that want to race on saterday then its a better deal for them because it would be less than 50.

Did I just confuse anybody but myself? Ha Ha

[DingleBerns]

I was unable to make it to the meeting, but maybe they came to a conclusion....

[polar x]

I hope they take the time to look at it from a cost point for everyone. We are already a very expensive club (compared to others) and every little bit helps in retaining a new racer.

[Ray-Ray]

I hope they take the time to look at it from a cost point for everyone. We are already a very expensive club (compared to others) and every little bit helps in retaining a new racer.


Do you realize what it cost to rent a track for a weekend? Do you know what it cost for insurance? Do you know what it cost for medics? Do you know what it cost for corner workers? Do you know what it cost for gate people? Do you think the "CLUB" is doing this to make money? NO! Come on Chris!

[polar x]

I hope they take the time to look at it from a cost point for everyone. We are already a very expensive club (compared to others) and every little bit helps in retaining a new racer.


Do you realize what it cost to rent a track for a weekend? Do you know what it cost for insurance? Do you know what it cost for medics? Do you know what it cost for corner workers? Do you know what it cost for gate people? Do you think the "CLUB" is doing this to make money? NO! Come on Chris!

To make this short, NO is my answer to all of your questions.
Nothing I said in the above quote even remotely comes close to me SAYING OR IMPLYING that this is to make money for the club Ray. YOU decided to take it in that direction. Fact is we ARE one of the more costly clubs, PERIOD.

So do not throw your attitude at me with miss statements or interpretations about my post. You know me better than that Ray.

[The GECCO]

Fact is we ARE one of the more costly clubs, PERIOD.

I would hope you have some data to back that up, because I don't think it's true.

Perhaps when you are only comparing entry fees it may LOOK that way, but it's only because there are other mandatory fees that more than make up the difference. Just as an example off the top of my head - I raced with the CRA at Mid-America and their entry fees were a little bit less than ours. Of course, what the entry fee form didn't tell you was that the reason the rates were lower is that their rental fees from the track were low, this is because the track made their money by having their personnel charge you $30 per person, per day to get in the gate. This was for EVERYONE, including racers who had paid entry fees to the club. If you wanted to camp overnight, it was another $50, and you still had to go back to the gate Sunday morning and pay the $30 to get your Sunday armband. So, while their club race fees were $30 or so less than ours, I paid an additional $110 directly to the track.

All I'm saying is make sure you're comparing apples to apples when comparing costs of various clubs.

We did come to a solution last night that was voted on by the members and passed overwhelmingly, I'll post something in the announcements section letting everyone know what it is.

[Ray-Ray]

I hope they take the time to look at it from a cost point for everyone. We are already a very expensive club (compared to others) and every little bit helps in retaining a new racer.


Do you realize what it cost to rent a track for a weekend? Do you know what it cost for insurance? Do you know what it cost for medics? Do you know what it cost for corner workers? Do you know what it cost for gate people? Do you think the "CLUB" is doing this to make money? NO! Come on Chris!

To make this short, NO is my answer to all of your questions.
Nothing I said in the above quote even remotely comes close to me SAYING OR IMPLYING that this is to make money for the club Ray. YOU decided to take it in that direction. Fact is we ARE one of the more costly clubs, PERIOD.

So do not throw your attitude at me with miss statements or interpretations about my post. You know me better than that Ray.


Chris - DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you spout off saying that the MRA is one of the most expensive clubs to race at.

I did the home work! Assuming that you race 3 races a weekend. NOT INCLUDING RACE LICENSE! Plus camping fees ect.

MRA
$200 Racing which includes practice now.
$0 gate fee

WERA
$200 races
$20 Gate fee
$115 Practice

MOM
$195 races
$75 practice
$? gate fee

CCS-Heartland
$190 races
$? practice listed on entry but I couldn't find what the cost is
$? gate fee


AFM
$200 races
$115 practice
$10 gate fee


SMRI
$160 races
$45 practice
$? gate fee.


And you say I have an attitude. I understand your goal here is to get new racers to the club but this is NOT the way to do it!

[polar x]

I was looking at 2 sprint races ONLY, no practice due to the fact that some clubs offer full day practice, some half, some are trackday affiliates so it can not be compared apples to apples.


2 RACES 3 RACES

SMRI $100 $140

AFM* $125/140 $175/200

CCS SW $160 $210

WERA
sport $130 $180

WERA $150 $210
national

MRA $150 $170

These are the number I came up with, how you got yours I am unsure. I did not want to register with MOM to get thiers.

[The GECCO]

MRA $170 $190



These are not representative of our costs. These are the prices listed on the FAX entry form. In order to encourage people to use the online system online entries are $20 less, and have been for the last couple years.

2 races = $150 3 races = $170

(I hope this isn't confusing the hell out of everyone reading - obviously these numbers are from before the new 'practice included' pricing for 2008)

[DingleBerns]

I have one question that might be a dumb one...if the race fees went up $30, is this for both saturday and sunday? If it is, then essentially your paying $60 for practice on saturday since it was included on sunday last year....?

[TBSgraphics]

I have one question that might be a dumb one...if the race fees went up $30, is this for both saturday and sunday? If it is, then essentially your paying $60 for practice on saturday since it was included on sunday last year....?

no i dont think so, I think the cost of the first race entred is increased,, doesn't matter which day it's on,

basic the club just expanded the racing to a full 2 days under a all day racing format.

[dragos13]

Only the entry fee for your first sprint race has gone up. So, you pay $30 more overall, and get practice for free all weekend.

[bluedevil]

Well I have read this thread regularly though decided it was not a battle I wanted to partake in.... In fact I thought it was dumb... If you didnt want the extra cost of practice, the best idea was shut up and not practice on Sat..... Instead, for those of us who could not afford to practice on Sat and DONT anyway.... You just got a nice rate increase for EVERYONE !!

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=5915

Thanks a lot I hope some of you are proud of yourselves, this will inevitably only push the extreme budget race like myself and possible new budget racers out of the club !!!!


(Sorry for the anger filled post)

[DingleBerns]

I see it now, thanks!

Dion, my rate went down by $20.....

[polar x]

MRA $170 $190



These are not representative of our costs. These are the prices listed on the FAX entry form. In order to encourage people to use the online system online entries are $20 less, and have been for the last couple years.

2 races = $150 3 races = $170

(I hope this isn't confusing the hell out of everyone reading - obviously these numbers are from before the new 'practice included' pricing for 2008)

Your correct Glen, I just got that off the 2008 entry form PDF. Sorry about that.

[Ashli]

I think this is a perfect solution. Well done guys/gals.

Sorry that it went up for (half the club?) $30.00. But isn't that a seriously tiny chunk compared to what we spend every single race weekend? I know that if I packed our dinner both nights instead of going out with everyone we'd save twice that much each weekend. I guess I"m just saying there are ways to cut down costs that we don't always see right away. All we can do now, is take it in stride and make it work, or get pissed off about it and quit racing. :(

[TBSgraphics]

I see it now, thanks!

Dion, my rate went down by $20.....

Nice dingle, maybe you can rub some salt or lemon juice in Dion's wound also....

[bluedevil]

Dion, my rate went down by $20.....

Ofcourse it did... Im subsidizing it now :roll:


The simple fact was that anyone who wants to practice on Sat and does.... ALWAYS will..... No matter what this schedule change did...... It has no affect on them..... In reality it had little to no affect on very many people at all....... The ones who didnt practice and/or could not afford to, just had their rates go up.....

Our wonderful government takes part in this all the time... Rich guy who didnt care and could afford it anyway gets tax break, and poor / middle class gets to decide between Ramen and cup of Noodle for his kids to eat that night.....

(mmmm thinks to self, Can I become an Endurance racer ONLY now? I hear dirt bike racing is pretty cheep these days....)

[T Baggins]

I was looking at 2 sprint races ONLY, no practice due to the fact that some clubs offer full day practice, some half, some are trackday affiliates so it can not be compared apples to apples.


2 RACES 3 RACES

SMRI $100 $140

AFM* $125/140 $175/200

CCS SW $160 $210

WERA
sport $130 $180

WERA $150 $210
national

MRA $150 $170

These are the number I came up with, how you got yours I am unsure. I did not want to register with MOM to get thiers.

Seems to me that we are right in the ballpark - and since ours includes practice now (both days) we're actually the better value - even with the increase.

Note too that you didn't take gate fees into account. You can't selectively include or exclude costs associated with the weekend to come up with numbers that favor your case. Especially since this whole thread started about practice fees - they need to be included.

The MRA fee structure definitely favors people who race more races. Because we are a "fixed expense" club (essentially same cost to put the day on whether 10 or 200 people show up) we have higher rates for the first race - to be sure at least our base expenses are covered. After that, our cost per race goes down considerably. If anyone is bored to death, they should figure our 4 and 5 races entered too - and I think you'll see that we are by far the least expensive.

What does it cost to enter the facility, practice, and race for the weekend? That's apples to apples. And racing with the MRA is a heck of a deal!

[DingleBerns]

Nice dingle, maybe you can rub some salt or lemon juice in Dion's wound also....

I was pointing out the fact that not everyones fee's went up....

[bluedevil]

I was pointing out the fact that not everyones fee's went up....

I caught that...... No worries.... I see what you meant..
This just turned out to be a moot situation that ended up screwing the minority worse than it would have originally if things had been left alone.... but the nice thing is the majority (the folks who practice on Sat anyway) got a price break... Though by assumption may have been the folks who needed it the least.....

In reality. I guess Ill take my own advice at this point and shut up....

[The GECCO]

MRA $170 $190



These are not representative of our costs. These are the prices listed on the FAX entry form. In order to encourage people to use the online system online entries are $20 less, and have been for the last couple years.

2 races = $150 3 races = $170

(I hope this isn't confusing the hell out of everyone reading - obviously these numbers are from before the new 'practice included' pricing for 2008)

Your correct Glen, I just got that off the 2008 entry form PDF. Sorry about that.

No worries.

[cu260r6]

So if you specifically do not want to pay for and do not want to practice in morning practice for Sat. you're now screwed? Is there any way to opt out of Sat. morning practice or are 50% of the racers now stuck subsidizing the practice of everyone else?

[bluedevil]

So if you specifically do not want to pay for and do not want to practice in morning practice for Sat. you're now screwed? Is there any way to opt out of Sat. morning practice or are 50% of the racers now stuck subsidizing the practice of everyone else?


Your stuck subsidizing....

[cu260r6]

According to the announcement thread only 50% of racers practice on a normal Sat. weekend, so this is screwing just as many people as it's helping. The only thing it helps is producing more revenue for the club, but that should be spread towards the riders who get more time on the track. Why not just charge more for the races on Sat. instead?

Thanks Chris #915 for whining our way into this, and my wallet thanks you too.

[bluedevil]

Why not just charge more for the races on Sat. instead?



That would not fix the SS only and Nov riders..... It would bring you back to the original reason for the arguement of "why do the Sat riders get screwed by having to pay and Sun riders dont....?" (You have come full circle with that solution) The answer is there is no answer.... Everyone will not be happy....

[cu260r6]

"why do the Sat riders get screwed by having to pay and Sun riders dont....?"

This seems apparent, because they chose to race on Sat. If I chose to race on Mon it would be a lot cheaper than Sunday too. :D

[The GECCO]

The only thing it helps is producing more revenue for the club <snip>

No, it doesn't produce more revenue for the club, the way the numbers work out it's essentially a wash.

But let's say it DID produce more revenue - why is that a bad thing? Heaven forbid your club should be financially healthy. It's not as if excess revenues go into MY pocket, or anyone else's for that matter, the money is spent on things that make the club better, like the new truck, new radios, announcing equipment, etc, etc, etc.

[cu260r6]

But let's say it DID produce more revenue - why is that a bad thing?
If the club needs more money to function correctly then fee increases are certainly justifiable, but given this was a discussion about the disparity in practice price that's hardly the issue.

[Kris]

HOLY S**T........you guys have a lot of time on your hands!! Anybody want to volunteer for the board?!?!? 00--00

[Wild Cheetah 612]

Or volunteer for the PR Committee...

[polar x]

Thanks Chris #915 for whining our way into this, and my wallet thanks you too.
YOU SPECIFICALLY are welcome. Clearly this was not what I wanted to see. I think it should have been something along the lines of the Sun format. But since it was voted on with one lone dissenting vote it must have been a convincing point of view from the board. I was not in the state so my vote was not cast. Where was your vote?

To anyone else who would like to flame me, have at it. I would ask the question and go through this again in a heart beat, I thought it was NOT in the best interest of keeping or acquiring new racers. And I stand by that. PERIOD!! The solution is worse than the original problem in my view, but the group that showed up voted on it and that's that.

And to anyone on the board that thinks this was a poke or attack, the above commit applies to you too.

[turbohoje]

Chris you have ruined my life. I'm afraid i can no longer race anymore due to the practice price change. hahah jk

i'm super stoked to still have a club in which to race despite the shrinking of the club and loss of tracks.


the board sure has a thankless job

[EdDuenez]

=D>

[Ashli]

A friend of mine reminded me of a quote the other day.... Racing isn't expensive, winning is.... 8)