New Schedule Questions...

[Lel399]

Actually more of a question on practice... I like (and I am sure that everyone will agree) that we are getting more tracktime. However the statement of 'they might be a little more crowded' is a little understated.

We are now combining Expert S/M 2 of the 3 rounds? Am I right in my assumption that at least 2/3rds of the club is expert? and of those experts probably 80% (or more) should be in slow or medium (leaving just the top 20% in Fast)? So now we are putting over 50%!!!!! (80% of 2/3rds) of the riders in one session? and combined for 2 of the 3 sessions? How does that work?

lel

[The GECCO]

The same way it worked every other time we combined slow and medium for the last couple years. First, I don't have the numbers in front of me but my gut tells me that Experts make up closer to 1/2 the club, not 2/3.

The main difference is that in the previous schedule we only combined the first round of practice, then had three rounds of un-combined. However, the reality is that quite a few times Bob Heaton and Tim Young made the decision to keep combining the sessions (to give more track time) due to the track not being very full.

The downside of this was that riders who might have been planning on going out in Expert Medium AFTER Expert Slow would suddenly hear "first call, Expert S/M combined", and have to scramble to get ready.

The other problem was that when they did the combining, the Expert Fast guys got screwed. What was scheduled as

9:00 - 9:12 Nov slow
9:12 - 9:24 Nov fast
9:24 - 9:36 Ex slow
9:36 - 9:48 Ex med
9:48 - 10:00 Ex fast

Became:

9:00 - 9:24 Nov combined
9:24 - 9:48 Ex S/M combined
9:48 - 10:00 Ex fast

So, by telling the staff to follow the schedule no matter what, we will hopefully solve some of these problems.

[Lel399]

Alright so some quantitative data... according to the MRA program (give or take a few from quick counting), in the back listed expert/novices. The club had 165 listed experts, and 101 listed novices. So 62% to 38%... pretty close to that 2/3rd mark :), now given this does not take into account for new riders etc, so lets say 60/40.

Again, that is still putting 48 riders on the track in one session, if 100 racers are at a weekend. (80% of 60%) The difference before was there were still 2 sessions of 'non crowded track' I cant think of a single time this year that more than the first 2 were combined, but again that still left 2 sessions non crowded. Now we are saying that 2 will be crowded w/ upwards of 50 people, and only one session that fits the majority of the riders???

Its safe to say exp. medium is easily the most crowded of the three expert practices, so a majority of the members fall into this catagory... i would assert 60% of expert riders fall into expert medium (20% slow, 60% med, 20% fast), so this isnt affecting 'the few' and should be discussed/adressed.

lel

[Lel399]

One other thing... if we will not race more that 40 people at pueblo... and X many at hastings, does that mean we will allow more than 40 bikes on the track at the same time for practice if Expert S/M have more than that combined? What about novice?

so who doesnt get to go on the track at that point?

I am not saying its not a good idea to combine the first round, i am saying that its not a good idea to combine 2 of the rounds or practice, for the same reason we dont combine every practice.

[The GECCO]

You are assuming that the racers that actually sign up and race reflect that same percentage (62% to 38%). There are a lot more "inactive" or "sometimes" experts than novices. And we did combine more than the first session quite a few times, someone complained every time it happened so I remember.

I wasn't aware that we won't race more than 40 bikes at Pueblo. The AMA's general rule that we have used is a maximum of 40 bikes per mile of track (the AMA's grid max at PPIR was 44). Going by that we could have 88 bikes at Pueblo. A few years ago (03 maybe?) when Lurch was Track Marshal at the first round at Pueblo we had 65 or 66 bikes in RoR and were debating whether or not to do two waves. We decided against it and let em run.

I don't think it will be that crowded if people can use their heads when going out. I think it seems more crowded than it actually is because everyone goes out at once and there's a big pack of bikes going around the track for the first couple laps of every session. Why not wait 30 seconds and go out after the pack??

Put it this way - Pueblo is 2.2 miles long, MPH is roughly the same and HPR will be closer to 2.4 miles. 2.2 miles equals 11,616 linear feet of track, divided by 88 bikes means that in theory there could be one bike every 132 feet. A lap time of 1:30 yields an average speed of 88 mph, or 129 feet per second. So, 88 bikes at Pueblo (if they were evenly spaced) would have a 1 second gap between them. Your example of 48 bikes yields a 1.8 second gap between bikes.

That's not THAT crowded, and it's just practice.

Ask Brewer or Tony what practice in the AFM is like...

[T Baggins]

Also note, Jason, that most of the novices from each season aren't listed in the program because they weren't members with numbers until well after the program had been printed.

If it becomes a "real problem" we could always set lap time parameters to ensure that each session is relatively equally attended. Having 20 guys in slow, 60 in med, and 20 in fast would be dumb. Slower than x = Slow Practice, Between x and y = medium, faster than y = fast. Since we have transponders it would be pretty easy to set up and enforce.

As far as practice in the AFM... well ten years ago for $80 you'd get two 20 minute sessions, but usually one was redflagged so if you got 30 minutes total you were lucky. And there were 80 bikes on the track.

Finally, practice is for cheaters, and fast guys like Jason and I don't need practice anyway - so why this is even an issue is beyond me. :-k :wink:

[Lel399]

You are assuming that the racers that actually sign up and race reflect that same percentage (62% to 38%). There are a lot more "inactive" or "sometimes" experts than novices.

And just as many novices that only race once, etc... semantics. It is a good quantitative snapshot of who might at the race weekends.



I wasn't aware that we won't race more than 40 bikes at Pueblo.


Why do we have heats for aces over 40 people (ie most recently amu, pueblo 1 2006)



I don't think it will be that crowded if people can use their heads when going out.

first, ive tried it... still doesnt work. Im not fast, I suck! and still in combined sessions you start hitting groups of people w/ massive speed differentials in a lap and a half. secondly, were racers! 40 people waiting in line to go out in turn? ill pay to watch that! haha


Ask Brewer or Tony what practice in the AFM is like...

I didnt know that the MRA was being renamed AFM? I thought we were the MRA, we dont follow the rules of other clubs why do we have to crowed our practices like them or even compare our practices like them? this is a pointless fact.


Is this a dead topic or is it something that can be discussed at the next general meeting?

[Lel399]

If it becomes a "real problem" we could always set lap time parameters to ensure that each session is relatively equally attended. Having 20 guys in slow, 60 in med, and 20 in fast would be dumb. Slower than x = Slow Practice, Between x and y = medium, faster than y = fast. Since we have transponders it would be pretty easy to set up and enforce.


thats all im saying!!!! :) hahah

[dragos13]

Finally, practice is for cheaters, and fast guys like Jason and I don't need practice anyway - so why this is even an issue is beyond me. :-k :wink:

screw practice, lets QUALIFY :twisted:

[The GECCO]

Is this a dead topic or is it something that can be discussed at the next general meeting?

We can talk about it if you'd like, but the only result will be shorter sessions and less track time. Saturday is already gonna be a long day, I don't see us doing 4 rounds of practice any longer.

[Tumbleweed]

Hey Jason,

Who needs Sat morning pratice anyway?

Just do what Applesauce and I do. Do both endurance races back to back. :D You will get plenty of practice for a good price and plenty of track time and space. And maybe you can even get a plaque at the end of the year for being consistent. 8)

[Tumbleweed]

Just playin by the way. You guys look like you're having fun so I wanted to be a part of it.

On a side note. Who wants to buy one of my bikes before Jess and I move. [-o<

[The GECCO]

I gots a crisp $20 bill in my pocket, I'll take both of 'em!

[marty]

is the pricing still going to be the same for running sprints and endurance. to clarify, if i sign up for sprints, will it still be $20 more per extra event, or will it still be $50 for endurance. also, are the endurance races still going to be broken down by classes or do i get to race liter bikes next year

[bluedevil]

If it becomes a "real problem" we could always set lap time parameters to ensure that each session is relatively equally attended. Having 20 guys in slow, 60 in med, and 20 in fast would be dumb. Slower than x = Slow Practice, Between x and y = medium, faster than y = fast. Since we have transponders it would be pretty easy to set up and enforce.



I remember years ago when this was enforced to get folks out of Fast... to avoid massive differentials in speed.... It was easy.. They went up to the board and posted, if you are slower than X:XX you go to Ex Med, If you are slower than X:XX you go to Ex Slow.... It solved the problem then, Im sure it could also work in the other direction as well... Simple fact is no matter what you do, Med will be the largest group of anything..

I have mostly only noticed when I went right out on 3rd call and had 25 or so bikes hit the track at once and I spend 3 laps trying to pass and get some open track... Ive found waiting just 1 or 2 mins, gets me wide open track....

I have no point in direction of a side on the issue... Just some info from another Ex Med riders perspective.. On paper, the new sched for the race day looks pretty sweet... Heck for a SS only rider you can go home on Saturday :D

[The GECCO]

is the pricing still going to be the same for running sprints and endurance. to clarify, if i sign up for sprints, will it still be $20 more per extra event, or will it still be $50 for endurance. also, are the endurance races still going to be broken down by classes or do i get to race liter bikes next year

All of this is unchanged.

[Clarkie]

wow, there sure is a lot of math going on in this thread :lol:

I like the schedule, it lets some of us try something new that wasnt really possible in the past (unless you were ST). Thanks for the hard work for changing it up and making it work!

[hcr25]

Lol, math gives me a head ache. I like the fact it will be less tire/wheel changes from DOT's to slicks. We get the supersport out of the way on saturday and then we can run slicks on sunday :)

[Clarkie]

yea i agree, and that means I can run more SS races :wink:

[hcr25]

I hope you got a 600!

[Lel399]

Hey Im not complaining about the schedule! I really like it!! I hate getting home so late on sunday.

[The GECCO]

I like the schedule, it lets some of us try something new that wasnt really possible in the past (unless you were ST).

Yeah, this was one of the main goals, to spread things out such that the "typical" rider could enter more races without having to run back to back to back. Of course, it's impossible to eliminate conflicts if someone has multiple bikes that are very different from one another, but that's the nature of the beast.

Looks good in theory, we'll see how it works in application!

[akuretz]

wow, there sure is a lot of math going on in this thread :lol:

I like the schedule, it lets some of us try something new that wasnt really possible in the past (unless you were ST). Thanks for the hard work for changing it up and making it work!

Do my eyes deceive me, or did Clarkie just agree with a board decision?? :shock: :lol:

I like the new schedule also, definitely provides more opportunity to run some different classes. Expert Medium practice definitely is crowded, but EX Slow is usually pretty light, which is why I usually ran it (not just because I'm on an SV :lol: ).

[Clarkie]

Do my eyes deceive me, or did Clarkie just agree with a board decision?? :shock: :lol:

I figure getting kicked out of the club while holding the #1 plate would be a bad thing :lol:

Donna actually called me a while ago asking my opinion on one version of the schedule, what I appreciated was being asked, even if it didnt have any outcome on the resut. That's why I voted for Donna, she does her job as a rider rep position justice 8)

[Jon]

Hurray for the new schedule, I believe it'll will satisfy everyone but one and he's going to be very Very upset. I've always said the race lasts all weekend.
It appears like I may be twiddling my thumbs a little Saturday but it'll give this old body a rest. I commend the board for the change.
From my experience with the CRA, some CCS and other clubs that have raced with that have done the Supersport Sat and Superbike/Gran Prix Sunday it really does allow a easier time. Hell, you can convert your Supersport bike to a Moto GP replica in that amount of time but just have to make sure it gets converted back and that trick multi adjustble slipper clutch doesn't show up in the following events Supersport race! Can't watch some good racing Sat and am really looking forward to the new season! Merry Christmas to all.

[Clarkie]

I believe it'll will satisfy everyone but one and he's going to be very Very upset.

have you told him yet?

[bluedevil]

fo sho... :lol: Im looing forward to seeing how it plays out. Plus now I have no more back to back.. and I like that.. 8)

[Jon]

Ain't no way in hell I'm going to! Hopefully he'll find out from someone else, otherwise I'll have to wait til he sees a schedule or signs up for the first race to see him go completly through the roof!

[Lel399]

Alright, the MRA by the numbers

Using results from Sunday Race 9 Pueblo 2007 (the most current, to give an 'up to date' number... not really the best SRS but will have to do for now)

Of 126 unique rider entries (including DNS etc) Sunday only:

79 were Experts (62%)
41 were Novices (38%)
2 Amatuer Only
4 Sportsman Only Riders

Of the 41 unique Novice U or O entries
31 Entered NovU
30 Entered NovO
20 Riders entered both

Of the 51 unitque AmU or AmO entries
39 Entered AmU
27 Entered AmO

23 Were Expert
26 Were Novice
2 Only raced Amatuer

Of the 13 unique Riders entered in sportsman
8 were Novices
4 Only raced sportsman
1 was an expert



Like I said this is not much of a random sample... but it is a sample and supports the program numbers (and ironically identically). If I get some more time over the winter Ill try to do a season stat... would be really fun to see (I am a numbers dork)

Although the NovU/NovO entries are bigger than all others (except amateur) there are fewer at the races (ie 60/40 ish) experts/novices

lel

[Clarkie]

I guess that answers the question of if Faster is busy or not :lol:

............... now break it down by lap times :wink:

there are people that practice in expert med because they want to be one of the 'fastest in practice' which is retarded when they shoudl be practicing in the fast group. you want a smaller medium practice group, tell some of the faster (no pun intended) riders to man up and practice in the fast group

[Jon]

Nah,
That's an indication of rather or not either Jason earning his keep or 2)How his marrage is proceeding..........Just kidding Jason. I hope all's well on both counts. You do wake up extra early to post these items right??

[Lel399]

Nah,
That's an indication of rather or not either Jason earning his keep or 2)How his marrage is proceeding..........Just kidding Jason. I hope all's well on both counts. You do wake up extra early to post these items right??

sleep... who needs sleep! :)

[Clarkie]

lol :lol: trust me, insomnia durning the race season is bad enough, but insomnia during the off-season will drive you insane! :evil: