**NEW 2008 RACEDAY SCHEDULE** READ THIS**

[The GECCO]

This has been posted in the "announcements" section so it will be easier for people to find at a later date.

As with everything, some will be happy, some will not. Unfortunately we cannot please everyone, but we spent more than two months kicking this around and had many, many variations before arriving where we did. We feel that this is the schedule that will best accomplish the goals we set.

Go here --> http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?p=30448#30448

Let the flaming begin, we know it's coming! :shock:

[motobum]

i really like the new schedule, because now i will be able to race more in one weekend. which is bound to be fun!

on the other hand..

i dont like the schedule, because i work at a motorcycle shop that is open on saturdays. so, now if i can't get saturday off im out of the points for my most important class.(Ngtu)

[hcr25]

on the other hand..

i dont like the schedule, because i work at a motorcycle shop that is open on saturdays. so, now if i can't get saturday off im out of the points for my most important class.(Ngtu)


The season is 4 months away request your time off now! :)

[motobum]

on the other hand..

i dont like the schedule, because i work at a motorcycle shop that is open on saturdays. so, now if i can't get saturday off im out of the points for my most important class.(Ngtu)


The season is 4 months away request your time off now! :)

ya ill have to figure something out.

overall i like the new schedule alot better!

whats the colorado class?

[The GECCO]

whats the colorado class?

Don't we have a book or guide of some kind that describes what all the classes are, rules, procedures, that kind of stuff? If not, we should give that some thought.....












:lol: Sorry, Benny, I just couldn't resist!!

[OConnell]

At the risk of a similar response:

What class is LOR? Im not sure I can follow that abbreviation.

[dragos13]

LOR:
http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=5086&highlight=femme

[OConnell]

I guess I should pay more attention. Thanks Casey.

[The GECCO]

I guess I should pay more attention. Thanks Casey.

Nah, that's a new one, not in the previous rulebooks. I'd cut ya some slack... :D

[hcr25]

It will be funny to see who will be the first guy to sign up for LOR.
I think we should make who ever it is wear a skirt for the weekend!

[Throttleroller277]

I was planning on it :D
And then protesting the other rider's "female status".:shock: A "Tear Down"! if you know what I mean.... and I will be there to witness.... fo sho!!! 8) 8)

[Ashli]

AM GTO is still the last race of the weekend :(

[motobum]

AM GTO is still the last race of the weekend :(

but it wont be so late in the day

[Mark Schellinger]

Brown
That brings a ho new meaning to tear down!
:D

[Throttleroller277]

8) :twisted: 8) 8)

[Spicee Brown]

I agree with Tozzi, Im sales scum that has to sell on Saturday ..to make a paycheck for next Sunday. The Boss man,Glennie, is top notch in my book for letting me go do a few races on those weekends..cuz im a novie that needs to move up. But that wont last forever. I sell lots of bikes on Saturday. Shame on me. Maybe Ill do another class, on another bike, Maybe Mountain bike racing. Just my 2 cents. Love this club, just a bit difficult to do this. Sunday is RACE DAY for me.
hauling Buckets for the man,
SPICEE

[clowe]

Hey MRA board.....

It seems as though this change is not really up for discussion but I was just wondering, how many people in the club work on Saturday? It seems we are really hurting for members and taking racing away from those people that make their money working on Saturday does not seem right. I am sure you all know exactly the number of people who work on Saturday and I'm sure you all looked into this but it was just my first thought. Does Ricky Orlando know about this yet?

So, since what is done is done. Can we make one other change so that people can actually see what this means in terms of "getting home earlier on Sunday night"? We have times for practice, can we just attach times to the races. I know there will be wrecks and track clean ups but we will have these in practice too. I feel like a lot of other clubs do this and it works pretty well. I think it could give us a chance to see when we will really get on the road home on Sunday night. Also, it could really help with the "third call" issue that we have been having.

Any thoughts from anyone else out there?

Crash

[hcr25]

Why does it matter if Ricky knows or not? (I'm sure he does by now) It is the MRA not the ROMRA. From Faster alone Jason,Bart, Brian and myself all work on Saturday. For 10 of the 13 years i have been racing i have worked on Saturday. For almost 9 years I worked Sundays to. The schedule is out almost 5 months before the season starts.
Plan accordingly!
Mike

[clowe]

Mike,

This really is not an issue for me at all. I don't work on Saturdays or Sundays. I was more just asking from the standpoint of the club. I know that you, Bart, Jason and Brian all work on Saturdays but for the most part you all work at the track. I can't think of the last Saturday that I didn't see everyone of you at the track. There are a lot of people that work for "non race shops" or shops that don't really support racing which is most of the shops here in Denver. Also, we have other folks that work in other industries that work on Saturday. Saying to "plan accordingly" could be like telling some people to FOAD. They may put everything they have into racing and working Saturday is what gets them to the track on Sunday. It just seems we could be hurting the club and that is the only reason why I even bring it up. As I said before, it doesn't really matter to me at all.

I send you a PM about the other stuff.

Everyone on the board seems real defensive about this and I am just asking questions.

[hcr25]

Crash no worries my friend. Like i said back when i was doing the Chef deal i worked nights and weekends. I had to request weekends off for racing.

Im not trying to be defensive, sorry if my post seemed that way.
mike

[T Baggins]

The big impetus on this was basically that Saturday was a screw-around day and was mostly wasted - though pretty much everyone had to be there anyway (to practice, claim a spot for your big-rig, etc...) so this just gives us all something legit to do on Saturdays. If it doesn't work out, I'm sure we can consider changing it again for 2009.

Furthermore, having Supersport on Saturday and Superbike on Sunday will help significantly with the race to swap wheels and tires - which I think "most" people will appreciate.

I agree with Mike that we have given plenty of notice for people to make necessary arrangements. For those who work on Saturdays, 9 days off over the course of a year doesn't seem unreasonable to me to request of your employer. Then again I'm independently wealthy, not really employed and have never truly worked for a living - so I wouldn't know what the rest of you go thru on a daily basis... :wink:

Posting specific times for practice is easy, because if your session gets cut short due to a wreck - it's still over when it's over. Can't really do that with races and still comply with the rulebook as it relates to scoring.

Crash, I think if we posted specific times for the races they would be wrong more often than not. I'm not sure we want to publish something like that... and then all look stupid because we're never on time. Just MHO.

[gixxermike]

Here's a question since there will be racing both days then. For spectators will they have to pay for both days or only Sunday. If paying for both days will the cost be spilt from what last years Sundays were or will it be that amt for both days.

[Lel399]

Here's a question since there will be racing both days then. For spectators will they have to pay for both days or only Sunday. If paying for both days will the cost be spilt from what last years Sundays were or will it be that amt for both days.

i think it would make sense since we are racing both days that a fee is collected on saturday... though it would be cool to see a 'weekend' fee instead of a sunday fee.... just my thoughts :P :oops: :)

[clowe]

T-Bag
Thanks for getting back to me. I am quite sure that I will give up after I post this but there were just a few points that I am trying to make. Mark and I also had a long talk about this today. I want to say again that I am very cool with racing both days. For me it will be awesome and I am always at the track all weekend anyway. My fear is really coming from the fact that I love racing here and I REALLY want to see the MRA grow. (I don't have the number to back up what I am saying but I would really love to see them and I know someone has them.) I feel that having real races (not endurance races) on Saturday could hurt the club. It may mean that some people have to make the choice between making $$$$ or racing on Saturday. It may not even be the time off. It may be that they make the bulk of their money on a weekend. They may still show up but they may see at the end of a season that it hurt the pocket book too much to race another year because of the $$$ they missed out on having to take off work. My fear is only that this could hurt membership for the club.

Then, there is the cost aspect. As a club the board has made decisions because if they voted for something it would be more expensive for the members (exp, having to buy rain tires to keep in the trailer). Now, a member who wants to race all the same Supersport and Superbike classes they raced last season will have to add an extra day of lodging and food into their plan. I would bet that for a supersport rider that was only planning on coming to the track on Sundays this will cost them well over $350 during the course of a season. (This is really just to make a point, I'm not that upset).

In short, I would just like to know how this is going to help our membership? My fear is that it could exclude a lot of new racers and maybe even some existing ones. Do we have the hard data as to the % of racers who signed up for practice and endurance on Saturday vs. Sunday? What is that %? Not a head count of who so and so saw or pitted next to but the hard numbers. I may be way off base but it seemed to me a lot of people showed up Saturday night and Sunday morning.

Also, I don't think Saturday was a screw around day for most of the people that I know. Practice and Endurance was how I set myself up for Sunday. That said, racing on Saturday will be cool for me and not make Sunday so crazy.

About the days off, some people only get two weeks, or 10 days. Kind of rough! What can I say, I am the champion of the little man!

I have just seen other clubs do the time thing and it works pretty well. You know to be out at the grid at xx:30 and you plan your time around that. I know there are problems but I have seen it work real well other places. Also, it could show exactly how much earlier we will be leaving the track on Sunday!

OK, Glenn, T-bag, Mark, Mike and the rest of the board, love you guys.

You can all let the S&*$ start flying at me now!

I can take it! 00--00

[motobum]

if the concern is that it will shy away new riders. then just move the novice races sunday.

sportsman is already on sunday. just swap the amU and amO with novU and novO.

either way ill be there.. i just might as well apply to be an expert.

[The GECCO]

I may be way off base but it seemed to me a lot of people showed up Saturday night and Sunday morning.
Personally, I think the numbers are in the single digits, but I am just going by "feel" as well. However, even if 50 guys showed up only for Sunday, you would still have to demonstrate that they all did it out of necessity. How many of them COULD show up on Saturday but simply chose not to because there are no "real" races on Saturdays?



just swap the amU and amO with novU and novO.
That goes against the grain of everything these changes are meant to accomplish. If we were to do this, and expert on a 600 who wants to run Amateur classes would have multiple back-to-back races.

Let's say I am an expert with a SS legal 600. I want to run as many races as possible to get the most bang (and tire money) for my buck. Depending on my choice between either Amateur classes or RoRU I would:

Run all three Supersport classes
Run all three Superbike classes
Run MW Endurance
Run either RoRU or both Amateur classes

That's either 8 or 9 races in a single weekend, and NOT ONE back-to-back race. The ability for people to do this should increase rider participation and grid sizes. How many of you would enter more classes if you didn't "need a break" on Sunday? This was one of the goals - to make it possible for the racers to maximize their track time without killing themselves to do it.

Benny - your change has that same rider running five of the six classes on Saturday (if he goes the Amateur route - which YOU would have to as a first year expert), that's not a very rider friendly schedule.

As for hurting the club, I don't see it as having a major impact. If a first year rider truly can't show on Saturday, he still has the option of running on Sunday in both Amateur classes, as well as Sportsman (and LOR if applicable). He also has the incentive to move up to Expert as soon as he is able. No one says you HAVE to chase a Novice championship in your first year.

If it's Experts we're talking about, the rider in the example I gave above (with the SS legal 600) can still come on Sunday and run five races, none of them back-to-back (or four, if he does RoRU instead of Amateur). How many experts ran more than five races on Sundays last year? If the problem is that they have to miss the "money classes", then they have to decide if they can make more cash working or racing - the pool of people with that problem is rather small. If such a person isn't able to finish in the money anyway, then their inability to enter SS races isn't a factor since they aren't losing income and still have plenty of track time available on Sundays.

Regarding food and lodging expenses - how many Novices DON'T practice on Saturdays? My gut tells me very few, because they want all the track time they can get at first. With this schedule, a Novice can come out, get a lot of practice Saturday AM, run both Novice classes and an Endurance race (or two) then pack up and go home, spending one LESS night in a hotel. So, it actually could be CHEAPER for someone just trying to break into the sport, plus they can then spend Sunday on the "honey-do" list so his (or her) better half will be more likely to put up with this madness.

Lastly - I don't want this to come across as harsh, and I don't want people to think I don't care about the guys who work their asses off selling or servicing bikes on Saturdays, because that's not at all true. However, the fact is that the number of people working at dealerships represents a very small percentage of the riding public as a whole. The intent of these changes was NOT to to alienate the dealership workers. The idea behind these changes was to make the schedule more friendly for the riders as a whole. This will attract and keep riders. As I said before, I know we can't please everybody so the goal has to be to please the majority, and the majority of racers CAN show up on Saturdays.

[gpsigs]

a couple concerning thoughts

-running novice and supersport classes on saturday targets two groups that are typically trying their best to afford to race. novices who are just getting into the sport do not have a lot of sponsors or hooks ups yet and have the most about of up front costs of getting started. likewise those running supersport i would say are also in a class that they hope will stay affordable. by running these on saturdays, even if individuals aren't necessarily working in a dealership, many people still do work on saturdays these days, we hurt them double as they spend more than twice the money running two days over one, and they aren't making money.

they other thing to keep in mind is that its a bit unfair to say a RACER doesn't HAVE to go for a novice championship in their first year. i would tend to think that anyone who is actually racing will have quite a bit of drive to be competitive otherwise they would be content just running track days. therefore this doesn't seem to be the best way to excuse making novices run saturday too.

just my thoughts, hoping to help in discussion

[The GECCO]

running novice and supersport classes on saturday targets two groups that are typically trying their best to afford to race. novices who are just getting into the sport do not have a lot of sponsors or hooks ups yet and have the most about of up front costs of getting started. likewise those running supersport i would say are also in a class that they hope will stay affordable. by running these on saturdays, even if individuals aren't necessarily working in a dealership, many people still do work on saturdays these days, we hurt them double as they spend more than twice the money running two days over one, and they aren't making money.

This argument doesn't wash - there are wealthy Novices and there are Experts that have 10 years with the club who are scraping by. Either way, the majority of the public doesn't work on Saturdays and if we are going to try to appeal to a certain group, it needs to be the majority. What would happen to the membership and entry levels if we decided to skip Saturday and race on Sunday and Monday instead?? I can tell you one thing, you'd be looking for replacements for 9 of the 11 Board Members, myself included.

Being competitive in Supersport is NOT the way to race on a budget. The bike has to be new (to qualify for contingency) and the level of competition is such that you can't skimp on equipment, tires, fuel, etc. If you want to race on a budget, you need an SV or a Modern Vintage bike. Neither of these are likely to be competitive in the current Novice classes, so a move to Expert as soon as it is feasible is desired, which leads into my second point below....


they other thing to keep in mind is that its a bit unfair to say a RACER doesn't HAVE to go for a novice championship in their first year. i would tend to think that anyone who is actually racing will have quite a bit of drive to be competitive otherwise they would be content just running track days. therefore this doesn't seem to be the best way to excuse making novices run saturday too.

My point was that I feel there is too much emphasis on the Novice championships, and too many riders who stay a Novice longer than they should for this reason. We have had to implement the "top 10" rule in an effort to move the perpetual Novices up. Personally, I think there shouldn't even BE a Novice championship - Novice should be a place to run a few races while you decide which direction you want to go as an Expert racer - but that's a whole other discussion.

[motobum]

glenn - you make very good points. all the fast people have told me that they got out of novice as fast as they could.

thanks for taking the time to explain the reasoning behind it.

[JimWilson29]

My point was that I feel there is too much emphasis on the Novice championships, and too many riders who stay a Novice longer than they should for this reason. We have had to implement the "top 10" rule in an effort to move the perpetual Novices up. Personally, I think there shouldn't even BE a Novice championship - Novice should be a place to run a few races while you decide which direction you want to go as an Expert racer - but that's a whole other discussion.


glenn - you make very good points. all the fast people have told me that they got out of novice as fast as they could.


When I raced at Willow Springs as a novice the end of 2003/beginning of 2004, I was booted out of the Novice class after 3 race weekends. There was no Novice championship and as a novice you could only run one race on Sunday so there was more incentive to advance to expert as soon as possible than here.

This is directly from their rulebook-
-Novice riders may advance to Probational Expert status by completing 3 Novice races occurring on 3 seperate event dates with a minimum of 10 advancement points earned and completing one day of corner working.
-Riders reaching 30 advancement points will be automatically advanced to Probational Expert status. Riders exceeding 30 advancement points may not participate in Novice races.

A 1st place finish is 15 points in their system so if you win two Novice races you automatically are advanced. Someone that is a running at a slower pace would take much longer to accumulate the points to advance than someone who is winning races and therefore spend more time racing as a Novice.

Personally it doesnt matter to me one way or another but it would be great to see some of these fast novices on the expert grids sooner.

[Lel399]

My point was that I feel there is too much emphasis on the Novice championships, and too many riders who stay a Novice longer than they should for this reason. We have had to implement the "top 10" rule in an effort to move the perpetual Novices up. Personally, I think there shouldn't even BE a Novice championship - Novice should be a place to run a few races while you decide which direction you want to go as an Expert racer - but that's a whole other discussion.



When I raced at Willow Springs as a novice the end of 2003/beginning of 2004, I was booted out of the Novice class after 3 race weekends. There was no Novice championship and as a novice you could only run one race on Sunday so there was more incentive to advance to expert as soon as possible than here.


Problem is you are comparing apples to oranges. Clubs like WERA, CCS, AFM etc... our novices are called 'amateurs' and run yellow plates, our sportsman is their novice.

[cu260r6]

Many racers start not knowing how good they'll be or how long they're going to continue with the sport. Becoming a top expert take a few years at the least, and that is a large commitment to make before you've even tried racing. Most novices want to do as well as they can the first year and hopefully win a championship because they don't know if they'll get another opportunity to do so. Eliminating these championships or reducing them somehow may lead to less new racers.