Pueblo Berm...

[Lel399]

thoughts on some work that could be done to the pueblo burms?

I believe the one between the runoff of 6 and the exit of 7 are required for SCCA? (is that correct?)

but what about some run off in 8? 2 wrecks this year so it is more than uncommon.

jason

[rforsythe]

Jason - the one this weekend was in a different spot than the previous. There needs to be something there to stop a bike from continuing (i.e. berm) though, so just taking them out won't work; I've been wondering the same thing as you though. Take Bob's crash for example - without the berm, he'd have taken out the fence between the track and the access road, though with it you end up launching any rider or bike that impacts it.

IMO about the only thing one could do there would be to lay down a nice bed of gravel trap to at least slow people down, since you can't very well airfence a pile of dirt. I'm sure there are issues with having gravel too, and maybe there are better ideas, but it seems like the lowest maintenance and possibly cheapest way of adding some speed control to those areas.

I doubt there is room to do what MMP does, but their traps are started with some hardpack to allow someone to use the brakes before hitting the deep stuff - it's a pretty cool idea.

[Lel399]

its the same spot as race 1 this year... trace warrick hit the identical spot, not talking about the one from race 7/8 double header.

I agree a gravel trap or something to slow down some riders there would help... looking at it on a cool down lap, if you burn off straight there... by the time you compose yourself from the intial bumps from hitting the dirt, you will be flying into the burm. Right now there is barely a track width of distance between the exit and mound

I think something needs to be there.... but its a matter of how close, there is still quite a bit of distance between the backside and the fence... it could maybe do by backing it up to where the sign in shack is... that would drastically help. Look at the sat image i attached, and where i drew a red line... if it went back just a bit more that would help greatly.

http://www.fastermotosports.com/images/pueblo.jpg

[Tumbleweed]

If that burm wasn't there you could easily save it before the fence but if a burm must be there for the cars I think Jason has a valid and much safer idea of where the burm should be moved to.

[Ashli]

If that burm wasn't there you could easily save it before the fence but if a burm must be there for the cars I think Jason has a valid and much safer idea of where the burm should be moved to.

I agree. Watching from Turn 8 yesterday I could tell once Bob realized he was going to hit it he had only enough time to try and put his feet down beforehand. If there wasn't a burm, the rider would have enough time to ditch the bike, lowside, bail; whatever. That burm and/or sticking a gravel trap in front of it is a lose/lose situation. :(

[KipBook]

Jason is correct, we did have two bad wrecks in the same place. I was unfortunately loaded both riders into transports. :(

I like the idea of moving the burm back. I also like the idea of some gravel traps. I've seen first hand the effectiveness of the gravel traps at Laguna Seca. I never would have thought that hitting a gravel trap at high speed would work on a bike, but I watched Marco Melandri blast into one in T2 at Seca this year and he rode it out, so it is possible. (getting it back out was entertaining) Maybe both would be possible.

As far as getting either of these ideas done, the club has members from all walks of construction, we should be able to come up with something!

I really love cornerworking... but I don't like seeing you guys head to the hospital! :cry:

[T Baggins]

I like Jason's idea as well - and it may not need to be pushed back quite that far to have the intended effect. Obviously "everything" else would have to be moved back as well along the track entrance road... to make sure that anything coming thru still at speed would be caught before it hit the buildings, cars, fence, etc... Having the berm behind the buildings wouldn't be very effective.

Keep in mind too, that many clubs and sanctioning bodies use Pueblo - so it may be that the berm is consistent with SCCA or some other regulations... so it might not be as easy as asking Earlene to get on a dozer and push it back. Hopefully that is not the case.

The weird thing to me is "where" Bob impacted the berm. He hit it right below where the "dark" patch is sitting behind the berm in the photo - just below Jason's red line. He not only didn't make the turn, he was going in a direction that was totally inconsistent with the normal racing line. Obviously the berms and barriers are laid out expecting people to crash setting up for or coming out of corners.

I didn't see the accident occur. Was there contact or a mechanical or something that caused him to run off where he did?

[rforsythe]

Ok so looking at the picture, it does seem like it might be possible to move it back - but I do agree that a gravel trap should be in front of it. Simply removing the berm altogether isn't really a viable option, because while a rider might potentially bail, they might not (or they would and the bike would continue into the fence, with who knows what on the other side). There does need to be something in the vicinity to stop a runaway bike or car; however a trap between the asphalt and that would likely slow the vehicle (and rider) down enough that even if they hit it, injuries wouldn't be as severe.

It will never be possible to completely remove risk of injury in that turn or any other one, gravel or not. But this seems like a reasonably easy way to reduce that risk, at least in this area.

FWIW I've heard "some people" talking that gravel traps at PMP are in the works and already funded. It isn't my project so I won't elaborate any more than that, except to say that were someone in a more official capacity to decide that moving that berm back was a workable idea, I'm happy to donate my time driving a tractor around and moving dirt, and/or grading for gravel. I'll even haul it down there from Denver if someone supplies (or rents) it and the trailer.

[rforsythe]

I didn't see the accident occur. Was there contact or a mechanical or something that caused him to run off where he did?

Witnesses told me there was some incidental contact that pushed him off. Nothing intentional I'm sure, just an unfortunate side effect of racing.

Oh, Jason - sorry about the mixup on wrecks, I initially thought you meant the bike-in-Blazer incident from the last event.

[dave.gallant]

Was there contact or a mechanical or something that caused him to run off where he did?

I ran off that direction almost exactly when I lost(ish) the front brakes on my SV650.

The racing line actually pulls back to the left before dipping for the right hander there, and if you notice you have no brakes early enough, running straight instead of dipping it in and lowsiding seems like a good idea.

Luckily, I had enough rear brake on a relatively slower-than-dog-sh!t motorcycle and was able to keep it up right and only get up to the berm and not over it.

[dave.gallant]

I didn't see the accident occur. Was there contact or a mechanical or something that caused him to run off where he did?

Witnesses told me there was some incidental contact that pushed him off. Nothing intentional I'm sure, just an unfortunate side effect of racing.

Oh, Jason - sorry about the mixup on wrecks, I initially thought you meant the bike-in-Blazer incident from the last event.

Or, if you are pinched off on the outside/left (which is very easy to get caught out on), you might very well indeed run straight.

[jplracing]

FWIW I've heard "some people" talking that gravel traps at PMP are in the works and already funded. It isn't my project so I won't elaborate any more than that[/b].

What Ralph is reffering to is the use of the Gene Fund. I am planning on taking the money that was raised to benefit saftey in Gene's name and use it toward the consturction of several gravel traps at PMP.

With that said it is important to note that I am still working with the track management to determine the changes that are going to be made to t10 and appropriate placement. I am also not sure if this will happen for 08 or 09...I will keep you up to date but please know that this is still in the planning stage and I have nothing firm as of yet

Joe

[HAMMER]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................

[dave.gallant]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................

You might want to wait until the dude who crashed is out of a coma before venting about red flag bullshit.

[bluedevil]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................

#-o [-X

[rforsythe]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................

[Deleted my own post... Not worth my time.]

[Lel399]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................
:shock: :-({|= ](*,)

[1ofTheBoys]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................

I can't beleive you would post something like that. Here Bob is in the hospital and your complaining that his wreck caused you the win. Get your head out of your a$$.

[HAMMER]

FU ..... of course i care about the well being of the crashed rider ( hope he is gonna be ok ).... that is not my point..........

[HAMMER]

:evil: :twisted:

[rforsythe]

FU ..... of course i care about the well being of the crashed rider ( hope he is gonna be ok ).... that is not my point..........

[Deleted my own post... Not worth my time.]

[Budd435]

I'm no track expert, nor do I play one on TV, but how about a fine rototilling of the dirt 10-15 feet before the berms. It would be low cost, easliy maintained, and if done right, could have the same effect of gravel.
I'm not talking about leaving large chunks of dirt, but just breaking up the surface to soften it up.

[Clarkie]

i fully agree. that wreck cost me a win this weekend.... f$#@%&$ red flag Bull s&%#..................


yeah, Madama would make a great rider rep :roll:

[HAMMER]

at least i wouldnt sugar coat everything and people would get a real perspective on issues and isnt "scared" to say whats up .. ........ the point of the post is that jay is right on with the freestyle mx jump on the road corner.

ps. i honestly had no clue the rider was injured in the wreck... its the 3rd race thats been flaged that cost positions...... less bad wrecks means less flags and less injured riders.......

mate......I think its super SUPER funny how ya still run your mouth on a keyboard .. why ya gotta start shit always :evil:

[dave_g]

at least i wouldnt sugar coat everything and people would get a real perspective on issues and isnt "scared" to say whats up .. ........ the point of the post is that jay is right on with the freestyle mx jump on the road corner.

ps. i honestly had no clue the rider was injured in the wreck... its the 3rd race thats been flaged that cost positions...... less bad wrecks means less flags and less injured riders.......

mate......I think its super SUPER funny how ya still run your mouth on a keyboard .. why ya gotta start shit always :evil:

This ends now.

If the subsequent posts are not in some way positive from everyone, I am not even going to warn the offending party; you are simply banned until we the start of the 2008 season.

[HAMMER]

sorry davie.........everything i say seem to have that effect on people... im not trying to cause problems... talk to.............hmmmmmmmm let me think....


foot in mouth bout the comment ( like i said had no clue ) xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo to all.


hope the guy is ok....seroiusly :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

[T Baggins]

Just bringing this thread back to life 'cause I'm too stupid to post pictures...

Look down at the third post, which shows Leleck's recommendation for the revised berm. This looks to be a better solution than what I saw at the track on Saturday...

Thoughts?

[bluedevil]

Just bringing this thread back to life 'cause I'm too stupid to post pictures...

Look down at the third post, which shows Leleck's recommendation for the revised berm. This looks to be a better solution than what I saw at the track on Saturday...

Thoughts?


Not to mention Pea Gravel is unbelievably cheap... Last time I bought it was about $60 bucks a truck load.... From my own experience.. pea gravel slows you down in a hurry.... :oops:

[Lel399]

I think one of the bits of feedback I heard from the first tme I posted this was that by moving the burm where I drew the red line, it would put the 'sign in shack' and people waiting in line to cross over the track in harms way.

What about a small revision? (as seen below) what about moving it back to where the red line is, but putting an additional burm (or tires that i guess they placed in front of the burm now) along the crossover road to the point where the burm ends now. This would limit the exposure angle for the cars/sign in shack at the cross over, but give someone the time to ditch it before the burm instead of going flying into the burm... or as ive heard it changed... to a tire a wall.

Also the additional tire wall along the entry road would be more perpendicular to the track, and obviously overall would be more safe then it is now

http://www.fastermotosports.com/images/pueblo2.JPG