Possibility of a MRA/MOM Miller combined event?

[glenngsxr]

Who would want this? I know many of us are just dying to get back to Miller, but I understand that it can be very costly for the club. If possible, how many of you would participate in a combined MRA and MOM doubleheader race at Miller? Kind of like a battle of the clubs. The two clubs could split the track rental, therefore dramatically reducing the cost to each. I see this as mutually beneficial for the clubs and riders. Is it possible and what does everyone think? Glenn #62

[dragos13]

i dont know, i kind of like this racing at only two tracks thing lol.

sounds like a great idea glenn, you got my vote :D

[dave.gallant]

I know that the USBA Board was interested in working with the MRA to do exactly that, although I am not sure if any true discussions were held between them.

It is pretty obvious it would get my vote since I made most of their rounds this year, and plan on doing their series again next year.

[hcr25]

im pretty sure our clubs talked about it. we would have a race at miller and their club would come to one of our events. If i remember correctly the utah club didnt want to travel

[Lel399]

i would be in... though logistically how would it work? How would we grid up? They qualify, we go by points etc... That i think would pose one of the biggest problems.

however what about contingency? Class structure, who's rules do we follow? I would be very tough to pull something like this together.

lel

[ctb]

I think we (Alan and I) would both love to do this...Two votes from the Filars

[bluedevil]

Perhaps we should focus more on getting our own local "act" together..... How about donating the funds you would use to race that event so we can get a new track here.....??? Pretty soon if this track falls through you will have to go race out of state permanently..... :cry:

Sorry I know how fun it is to race and Im being a party pooper... Guess Im not ready to get rid of local racing yet.......

[dave.gallant]

Guess Im not ready to get rid of local racing yet.......

Getting rid of local racing?

What are you talking about?

Racers go racing. That is what we do. Glenn was just asking if anyone wanted to think about racing at Miller in addition to here.

[rforsythe]

Racers go racing. That is what we do.

Well, there's also that goat thing you do.......

[glenngsxr]

Mike,
not necessarily trading races. If I had Miller as my back door, I sure as hell would not come to Pueblo. At this point, it does not look like we will have a new track anyways because of the massive shortfall of fundage. Racing wipes me out anyways, much less with having to donate.(although I still intend to and did buy takeoffs from Brownie due to him donating the money to the track). the problem lies in that we have nothing to offer them yet. They do.

Jason,
Logistically, it could get very tricky. They would not want to come here also because we have no power and no garages, etc. Most MOM racers don't have canopies, generators, campers, etc. However, for the benefit of both clubs, I'm sure we could work something out for contingency. They do it many times a year when clubs combine for say, the AMA Road Race Grand nationals. It would be impossible to grid both clubs up according to points, therefore it would require qualifying(something probably all of us would love to do. Like WSBK does the SuperPole, we could do the Mountain Pole or Pole of the Rockies). With proper planning, it can be done.

I guess I am just yearning for another track to the schedule. One that is safe at that. The layout at Pueblo is great and Earlene tries her hardest I know, but we can all agree the track is deteriorating and getting more unsafe every year. It would just be nice to go back to Miller again and enjoy a different venue. Including the cost of a bike, racing cost me over sixteen thousand this year, and I did it cheap as I could, believe me. It is difficult to get motivated for a new track when we have a 2.5 million dollar shortfall. How can we possibly come up with that? BTW, I am expecting at least one person to come and $#!t down my throat about the new track thing so let me hear it. Glenn #62

[bluedevil]

I understood it at combining MRA and MOM events as one event where we race eachother at Miller?

If its simply going to race MOM at Miller on your own... then why discuss it in a challenge sort of way.... Just go race it.....

[glenngsxr]

Dion, it would be kind of like an informal challenge. Making it a spot on our points calendar is much different than some of us going to Utah to face their club. An event like this might draw some new racers as well. Glenn #62

[bluedevil]

Dion, it would be kind of like an informal challenge. Making it a spot on our points calendar is much different than some of us going to Utah to face their club. An event like this might draw some new racers as well. Glenn #62


Well if its not for MRA points... then its all in fun and a challenge on each racers own.... I see that point of view.... I say if you want to go race it, and it doesnt count for points in MRA..... then kick their A$$es !!!! :lol:

[TRK]

Combining the schedules would be easy.
Add heavyweight superbike
Place racers on the grid according to points, alternating MOM racers and MRA racers.

For the ROR/MOM GTU/O races just qualify for that round or use alternating points once again.

[cu260r6]

I think it is a fantastic idea, but the logistics seem pretty hard to work through. Rather than bastardizing either club's rules, classes, etc to the point everyone is confused I think adopting one organization's procedures would be the best way to go, and since the MRA is much more established club... but I don't think the USBA would agree to that. :D

As for gridding I see three possibilities. First, the easiest way would just be to start in each class in two waves, one MRA, one USBA. If we were racing on the full or perimeter track lappers wouldn't be that big of a problem, and if they were counted as two races results/contingency would be taken care of as well. Second, we could grid the first MRA guy, the first USBA person, the second MRA racer, etc on down the line. Third we could do qualifying for some classes like the USBA.

Wasn't this an idea talked about last year? I thought there was a hangup with the negotiations, or am I mistaken?

[Hotrod]

Making it a spot on our points calendar is much different than some of us...


I say if you want to go race it, and it doesnt count for points in MRA


You guys communicate like you are married to eachother! :D

[glenngsxr]

At the last race we were married to each other. Either I was right in front of him or vice versa all weekend. Glenn #62

[The GECCO]

We had something like this pretty well worked out, I spent quite a lot of time working with someone over there (can't recall his name at the moment) to iron out all the details. We had everything pretty well covered, but it was going to be a reciprocal thing were the MRA would travel to MMP for one event that they "hosted" that paid points to both classes, and then they would travel to MPH for an event that we would "host" under the same rules.

They brought up the idea in a riders meeting and it was soundly voted down, they weren't willing to travel to MPH. I don't really blame them, if I had MMP in my backyard I wouldn't feel a real need to go to MPH either. But in order to make the deal equally beneficial for both clubs it needs to go both ways.

Glenn - there is not a 2 million dollar shortfall for the new track, please don't say that. I have been saying for months that the donations part of the fundraising needs to raise $500,000 (minimum) in order to complete a usable facility (obviously more donations means more amenities). We have raised a little over half of that donations goal. The rest of what is missing from the thermometer on the HPR site will come in loans. We have close to 75% of the loan funds verbally committed and those funds will be added to the thermometer once the lawyers are done with the papers and everything is signed.

[clowe]

Guys, I think it is a great idea. TRK (BTW, you are my little bitch) has the plan in place. Here is the thing you need to understand. People from their club are not really in a position to travel. Most of them only have very small trailers, no generators, no EZ ups and no air compressors. They race in one place and every time they show up there is water, power, air and a garage. Most of them travel less than an hour to race, that is what they know. We just have to take that into account because I think it would be hard to get them over here.

But, I went to all of there rounds this year except for two and I will be racing there again next year, I am all up for it!

[motobum]

I think that racing at miller is a great idea for 2009! I think that we should focus on getting a track built here in colorado for 2008...

Is there anyway that the mra could host a trackday a PMP where the non licensed riders could come, and the proceeds would go to the new track? im sure many of us would be willing to donate there time. This could also stir up some new members...

This is my first year racing and im really discouraged by people saying the club is falling apart.. :( Im sure that many of the problems will wither away when the new track is built.

[glenngsxr]

Glenn,
Sorry if it sounded harsh. Believe me, I want a new track more than anything. I am not claiming poverty when I say it is hard to donate, but it really is sometimes, especially when most of my disposable income already goes to racing. I will be donating at the first opportunity. I am a firm believer in the heart and soul of this club and the friends I have made here are friends for life. In all, for me if we don't have a new track I lose more than just a hobby, but friends that may not be back racing again and I definitely don't want that to happen. I received your PM and I know you have put in some serious legwork and it does not go unnoticed. From what I can tell, you have done a tremendous job with the club. I didn't want to get into a new track battle, but at times it seems discouraging. Maybe that's what came out in my reply.

Benny, you will never have to worry about the club falling apart. We are a tight knit family and we will always find a way to get out and compete, even if we lose every track, the IMI pits will be full and you run into lappers by the end of lap one.

Glenn,
Have we thought about getting some sort of corporate sponsorship? Since I am almost done with my Economics Masters, I could easily do an advertising feasibility study and determine the exact benefit to a possible donor. Have we attacked this avenue yet?

We have some really smart brains in this club. Let's get together and figure out ways to get the ball rolling in addition to donations. Although it will not be much, you can keep my ROR money next weekend and next year to donate to the new track. That's a promise. As long as all my friends are back next year to race with me. Glenn #62

[TRK]

What does racing a combined event at Miller, and a new track have to do with eachother. Racers race................

[glenngsxr]

The beauty about forums is that you don't have to be face to face with the person your talking to so context is taken out and people get off topic easily. Glenn #62

[Wild Cheetah 612]

I think that racing at miller is a great idea for 2009! I think that we should focus on getting a track built here in colorado for 2008...

Here! Here!
Let's take care of our own house first! Otis and I as Wild Cheetah Racing are in for $500 so far and are continuing to add as we can. This track is going to happen and the sooner we get the money in the sooner the track gets built. If you guys want to break ground this fall for a spring 2008 opening, then get your money in soon. If we dilly dally much more, we won't get to break ground until the spring and that screws us for a raceable track for the '08 season! This will be our track with our rules. Let's own it!
TRK said, "Racers race." Go elsewhere and your money gets spent with another club with none to spare for HPR (High Plains Raceway). Glenn said that most of his disposable income goes to racing. Same with Wild Cheetah, but we're running a tight financial ship right now to make sure we have some to donate to so we can race at a cool new place without traction compound and a motocross turn (turn 10). Imagine the return of old racers back to the club and a large increase in membership because of the new track. That turns into more money for the club for more benefits for you.

[glenngsxr]

Let's not take out of context what my original post said. I was merely mentioning adding an event like this onto the schedule for next year. I never said let's forget about the new track. We might be able to have our cake and eat it too. Glenn #62

[The GECCO]

Glenn, I realize you never said forget about the new track, and I'm coming from a point of frustration, not anger (just so we're clear :wink:)

I just find it ironic that you are claiming to be on a budget so tight that there's little or nothing left to donate, yet in the same breath you're advocating additional out-of-state racing (and the associated expenses).

I dug through my old emails, last October I spent a lot of time corresponding with Lance Lee (USBA Treasurer) to formulate a plan for a joint event. We had at least 99% of the logistics worked out, and I still have all my notes. The problem is that it keys on reciprocity. Rather than reinvent the wheel trying to explain it, I'll paste in part of one email I sent near the end of our exchange. This was after he relayed that his club didn't want to travel to PMP or MPH (the first line is because he was worried I/we would take that decision as an insult):


Lance, I don't take any disrespect or anything like that from your position, nor that of your members. If I had MMP 30 minutes away I wouldn't see the reason to travel either!

The reciprocity really is the sticking point, though. <irrelevant crap removed> The problem is that if we agree to do a joint event then we are telling our members that in order to earn points towards an MRA championship they must race with another club, where things like race procedures, dispute resolution, etc are not under the control of the MRA board. This is something we cannot justify without the reciprocity. I brought the idea up at our general meeting last Thursday and while the idea in general had support, without reciprocity the support went away.

I added the emphasis, because that was the main sticking point for me and the rest of the board.

[dave.gallant]

What does racing a combined event at Miller, and a new track have to do with eachother. Racers race................

I believe the undercurrent here is that instead of racing at Miller (one of the most impressive tracks in the country, possibly the world), those individuals should be donating to the new track instead.

What has yet to be said is that while a new track might be only an hour away instead of 7 hours away, it will cost us all as racers (not a club!) the same amount of $ to race at this new track as it will at Miller independent of the ownership model.

Please do not take the above as a lack of support for the new facility. I applaud the efforts of the MRA Board in this regards and I am hopeful for the future of roadracing in Colorado.

[glenngsxr]

This year we did not race Miller, but instead did Pueblo and Hastings. Two at Hastings to be exact, with one a doubleheader. Ideally, we could do three pueblo's, one hastings, three high plains, and maybe one combined Miller race. That is still only two out of state races. This would not change the price of racing dramatically, just change where we spent it. Just to reciprocate with you Glenn, no anger here. Just giving ideas and seeing how you feel about these scenarios. I am not counting out the new track, just really want to get back to Miller because it is a great facility and a fun track. Glenn #62

[TRK]

I just want to see a world class facility added to our race schedule. I just don't understand how an addition to our schedule (a race at Miller, Hastings or even Casper Wyoming) has anything to do with the new track.

I will now return to my normal lurking.............

[Mark Schellinger]

WOW what a bunch of girls.

If ya'll want to go race at Miller,
Than go effin race at Miller.

[The GECCO]

There's nothing stopping you from racing at MMP, I agree it's a great facility. Once the new track is open I see even less incentive for us to travel there, however. We should be racing at (ie, financially supporting) our own track first and foremost.

When MMP first opened, despite all the clamor and calls to go there, despite all the people who filled out the written poll at Pueblo at the end of 2005 saying they would attend, it was our worst turnout in recent memory (and it was an early season double-header).

[dave.gallant]

WOW what a bunch of girls.

If ya'll want to go race at Miller,
Than go effin race at Miller.

We do.

You should come with us too and show those kiddies how its done!

Josh Graham was out there kicking ass last weekend and I know you old guys will do just fine! :D

[glenngsxr]

Oh forget it. It was just a simple damn question.

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

Oh forget it. It was just a simple damn question.
Glenn, I can understand your frustration. Most questions about running a roadrace club seem simple at first, but get complicated quickly.

The MRA board has the responsibility to keep racing fair, fun, and financially sound all at the same time. We *have* to look at all the details of any change to make sure we don't accidentally drive the club into financial or legal ruin. It might not look hard to do during a race weekend, but that's only because of the intense work people like Gecco, Tbag and others put into it outside of the track.

[glenngsxr]

Jim,
I know they work hard. I want to be part of that team that works hard because I care about the club and it's constituents a lot. I was just asking what everyone thought and how feasible it might be. It got good poll results, but then so did our little poll in 2005 so that's out the window. forget it. Regardless of the new track situation.....I have heard a lot of people saying they want Miller back on the schedule so I brainstormed and came up with the poll. I do agree with your input though, Jim. just forget about it. Glenn #62

[froth]

Don't worry about the spiraling complexity, Glen. As "Smooth" said, it takes massive effort to put on a ****ed up weekend, and even more to make a good one, from the running of the club to the burgers at the snack bar. About a thousand years ago, I was an officer with the Prairie Dawgs MC, and just putting on one Enduro a year (at the time the second longes running one in the nation!) was a paperwork nightmare, so kudos to our folks for keeping things running and a bright outlook!

Remember, they got the short end of the stick when we lost 60% of our tracks in a season. (again, many thaks to everyone in Nebraska, I've made each event, and it WAS worth it every time.

I'm also scheduling money for out new track. As for housing Utahians (spelling?), I stay in the expanding Poppajohn compound (Many thanks, Big Mike, Crhis, and Cassie for housing and feeding something like 87 of us each weekend, you're the very best!), and have an enclosed trailer which will sleep four. Could we start by telling the Miller folks that we would be happy to double up campers, tents, etc????? I know it would be different for them, as they have Miller so close, but hey, Louise and Clark camped for what, three years?

I think it would be a blast to race with a bunch of new friends.(as slow as I go, I'll never make it to "track specialist" status, so sunning and gunning, and picnicks with foloks sounds like a great way to spend my time. If we go back to Miller, I'd be happy to take bikes with.

BTW Glenn, how's work on the aunt and uncles place going? I was in Parker a couple days ago.

Well, that's the view from here.

Carpe Carp!

[Blue Junk]

FWIW, I think Crash hit the nail on the head. Being a MMP local, we know nothing other than racing locally. We have no concept of traveling hours or spending countless dollars on racing out of state.

This would be a hard thing to pull out for the Utah folks, IMO. We are pretty spoiled with what we have here, and seem to be ok with that.

Now, with that said, I hope to get out of our pond here and try an MRA event or 2 next year. I hope to attend a Hasting event, so long as it doesn't conflict with our schedule.

[Jon]

Once upon a time long long ago, Colorado had many many tracks, Utah had one, called Bonneville raceway (come on old-timers cue in here) Tires were hard, engines were often air cooled, there were no warmers, no trailers, no generators, transponders, hell there weren't tire vendors! Many many times Utopians, (that's people from Utah) came from far, far away (well at least from Utah) to race at our tracks, Steamboat, Mountain View,Pueblo and Stapleton. Sometimes we would go visit them and race at there track. Gas was much cheaper, dinosaurs roamed freely (Ok I'm getting carried away, but did I mention gas was cheaper) Regardless, they (the Utopian, people from Utah) were the ones doing the traveling. For many many years this went on. I remember Lance Lee as a young Jedi, but many many years before him names like Hoppestad, often were on our grid ( but then again, he lived here) besides these two and Jason Parkinson, I don't recognize any names from the past. So maybe thats a good indication of who you have in the USBA series these days.
My feelings are real racers race, they will drive and drive to do so, they welcome the opportunity for new challenges, new clubs, new tracks, but when the opportunity to have a new track (with elevation changes) not far from home represents itself, they should look to help make this happen, to try and assure that is does happen, and feel good knowing that if it does happen, that IT's NOT GOING TO BE FLAT AS A PANCAKE LIKE MILLER

[turbohoje]

My feelings are real racers race, they will drive and drive to do so...

amen to that

[Wild Cheetah 612]

WOW what a bunch of girls
Hey! watch the "girl" comment.

Still think we should get our own sh!t together before we combine with USBA. The club lost a lot of money on our last trip to MMP. Let's get the new track, increase membership, then venture outwards.

Racers race, indeed, but we shouldn't neglect our own family here at home.

[Throttleroller277]

After reading the last 2 pages of replies, most of my comments have already been said. Obviously I would be in for such an event.
The words that come to mind first though is, as said before, "if you want to race at Miller, than go race at Miller! No-one is stopping you. 8)

In regards to the USBA: one thing that has not been mentioned is that their tentative schedule for 2008 is already complete, so this is a little late to be attempting to set up, not to say they couldn't add another race at Hastings to their schedule though.

I was at that meeting last year at Miller when there was a vote at the Rider's Meeting to see what MoM racers would be willing to travel, and maybe a handful of Utah riders we"in". And along with what the Prez said, and this very"Pole", in 2005 a lot of racers said would go to Miller, and when it came to the 2006 event, not many showed up, so in my opinion this poll is worthless!!! :lol: 8)

Jon, Miller is definitely no "Roller Coaster", but i do know that it has more elevation change than Pueblo!

and FYI - my takeoff sales at the Labor day race event added up to $700, and it all went to the track, and the 502 brick!!8) Well Russ U. still owes me $100.....Russs?? :shock:

[Jon]

I commend you Jeff and weren't saying anything like the people who want to race at Miller are neglecting out club, hell I was originally going to do both series as well but couldn't afford the time away from work or my family. I commend those who can race every weekend in 99 I did pretty much the same and drove 43,000 miles doing so. That was BFWAK (BEFORE WIFE AND KIDS) I don't remember Miller at least the west track having hill though? You'll have to excuse me as I haven't been back but will next year.
I was reminising of different times and trying to help plug raising funding for the new track so one day in the future, when you too see not travelling and can go a fairly short distance and race. You may not realize it now but life and responsibility has a way of keeping you close to home. Didn't mean to piss anyone off.

[Throttleroller277]

I'm not upset Jon. And I know that you are not afraid to travel. I also know that you have donated to the new track. And a big props to you for not only donating, but donating MULTIPLE TIMES!! 8)

I just find it interesting that people say they will spend the money to travel to Miller, but they don't have the money to donate to the new track; which I think Glenn Conser was commenting on earlier.

Maybe we should start a new poll linked to this one, asking the people that voted yes for Miller, if they have Donated to High Plains yet?? And does their donation equate to the additional cost of traveling not only to Miller, but an additional race weekend as well; if we are talking about doing a joint MRA/MoM weekend once on our turf, and once on theirs! :shock: 8)

I find it interesting too, that 570+ people have viewed this thread, and yet there are only 20 votes :roll:
Doesn't look too good does it GSXRGlenn? 8)

[Scored51]

I find it interesting too, that 570+ people have viewed this thread, and yet there are only 20 votes :roll:

628 views divided by 42 replies = 14.9 Seems to me there are about 15 of us following this thread by looking at each posting once. :shock: It might suggest Glenn is doing better than you think with the poll. Maybe there needs to be a third option in the poll, "Awesome idea, but just isn't practical for me right now." OR "I'd rather donate to the new track instead." :wink:

[gsnyder828]

In regards to the USBA: one thing that has not been mentioned is that their tentative schedule for 2008 is already complete...

Off topic, I realize, but is their tentative '08 schedule posted anywhere? I can't find it...

[Jon]

Several clubs across the country operate with only one track and do fine as if there's only one track available, that's were you race and most everyone becomes fairly proficient at that track (LRRS races at Loudon only, Fasttrax races at Nelson only, WSMC at Willow only and CRA at Brainerd only) so the idea of the MRA going away probably not totally founded. I think one of the reasons is that it's become really expensive to run the club with signup for one race only $10 less than a race at Daytona with CCS. The pretty part's we get much more track time. If we had more members though we could maybe be a bit cheaper, but we seem to be losing more than we're gaining so hopefully when we get the new track, we get more people racing and costs can stay the same. So I'd put my money up for getting a new track, more members and having more fun!

[loujr]

I am new and in no way probably have much of a say, but I feel like we should focus on trying to get the new track up and running, as to help the MRA grow and continue. I grew up in the MRA, my son on hot days wears a 1988 MRA t-shirt to bed, and I wore that shirt with pride when I was 8. My dad started racing in 83-84ish...I wish we had more local and close tracks that we could run at as most of my childhood is based around MRA events. I would love if that could continue if only for my own selfish reasons as my son growing up with the same memories as I have. It's not a bad idea, nor is it something I would not be willing to do, let's just not get caught up in getting away from the MRA goal...although I don't see how this would in any way shape or form replace what "we" are trying to do....it's worth a shot?

[r1-superstar]

In regards to the USBA: one thing that has not been mentioned is that their tentative schedule for 2008 is already complete...

Off topic, I realize, but is their tentative '08 schedule posted anywhere? I can't find it...

They are as follows:

April 12 - 13
May 3 - 4
June 21 - 22
July 26 - 27
Aug 9 - 10 --> trying to move to Aug 16 - 17
Sept 6 - 7 (AHRMA weekend - might also be AMA Pro Supermoto)
Oct 4 - 5

WSBK is on June 1 2008

I thank all those that have made the trip to MMP this year. We really enjoyed having you. For the rest, if you can ever make it that would be cool.

The posts about traveling are correct. Most of our racers don't know or have the equipment to travel out of state for a race.

Cheers!
db