Improvements to Pueblo Motorsports Park

[jbnwc]

Many of you know that Faasst Motorsports took over operations at Pueblo Motorsport Park last year. 2014 will be the first full year under Faasst's control and they plan to make it better than it's ever been before. They've already more changes and improvements than I can count in the last 8 months or so and will keep them coming going into the future. They have a 12 year contract with the city of Pueblo to operate PMP, so the track is just going to keep getting better!

I wanted to share some of the recent improvements with you since these are a benefit to anyone using the track, but especially bikes. They've focused a lot of attention on Turn 10 as well as the runoff areas around the track since those are critical to safety.

Turn 10 guardrail removal - This was a big one. There was a guardrail from the outside of T10 and extending about 150 feet to the southeast. In other words, if you happened to veer off to left as you approach T10, you would almost certainly have an unpleasant interaction with a steel guardrail. So last week, that was improved with the removal of all of the guardrail that extended to the southwest from the edge of the track. Now, if you happen to run off there at 70mph, you have a MUCH better chance of not hitting anything.

Turn 10 gravel trap - This is another big one. They dug out about 4 inches of the clay/gravel that was on the exit of T10 and replaced it with much softer pea gravel so that if you crash on the exit, you and your bike slow down quickly before you can hit anything. This is still a work in progress(stopped by the breakdown of the front-end loader). If you have mechanical expertise to help fix the John Deere 544 or a hook-up with someone who can provide more pea gravel, please let me know!

Turn 10 softer barriers - There are some barriers and a light pole that cannot be removed, so they wanted to make them as soft as possible in case the worst happens and you find yourself heading towards something immovable in a hurry. They put additional tires around any such barriers and also added 80 ft of tires to the exit of T10 so you don't have any exposed concrete there. They also pushed ALL of the old tire barriers back about 8 ft so you have less of a chance of even hitting those.

Turns 1-7 run off improvement - This was something I specifically wanted since I've spent a lot of time riding with SuperStreet and my MRA Novice friends and for some reason, we all seem to spend a significant amount of time in the dirt. I want to make sure that any accidental trips off-road end with nothing more hurt than your pride, so I spent this past Sunday running their box scaper over every bump, tumbleweed, and prairie dog hole8-) I could find. I'm going to be down there again this weekend and when the track isn't hot, I plant to hit 8 and 9 as well as extend the work I already did on the other corners. I'm planning to do this regularly throughout the year, so that it is always ready and in good condition for you.

We also consulted with MRA reps this past weekend and have additional motorcycle-specific projects that we hope to accomplish this winter/spring/summer if possible.

They could use your help. I donate all of my time; Faasst doesn't pay me a dime(although I do get special perks like getting to run PMP backwards in the dark8-)). I do it because I love racing and I want all of us to have a plethora of top-notch tracks all within driving distance. You can help, too. If you have time on a Wed-Sun(preferably on non-event weekends, go down to PMP and stop in at the office. Just let Judy or Donovan know that you want to help improve the track and would like to donate your time/equipment/expertise/pea gravel/elbow grease/whatever. This track is out of the hands of the politicians now and into the capable hands of some die-hard racers, so please help us make it successful!
Here are some pic's of T1's runoff after I got to it Sunday.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iNeusVTAEP8/UtRLyziKJrI/AAAAAAAAAHk/SVY6c1v_iyY/w1358-h764-no/20140112_124514.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hYjg0B-3jHQ/UtRLy12Lq2I/AAAAAAAAAHg/4qmgQ7E3uY0/w1358-h764-no/20140112_124521.jpg


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DnytjAWmnlg/UtRLy97iOnI/AAAAAAAAAHo/HEDV8nCGjD4/w1358-h764-no/20140112_124534.jpg

[Ray-Ray]

Well I do appreciate the efforts that you are volunteering to do around the track however until they fix turn 10 layout and the slick concrete that goes 3/4 down the drag strip its still a dangerous track. Removing the guardrail is a start. Its to bad that OUR club gave the city money to help pay for the paving and changing of T10 to cater to the drag racers. Sure wish we would have used the money at HPR or even PPIR.

[jbnwc]

Ray, that is one of a few "motorcycle-specific projects" that are being looked at. I can't speak to anything that happened prior to last summer since I wasn't involved. I, too, would have liked to have seen a better outcome from the repaving, but I sat on my butt while all the decisions were being made and assumed someone else would speak up for us. No more. I'm not assuming anyone is doing anything, so I'm getting involved as much as possible.

I might be wrong, but I believe the people running PMP before Faasst were die-hard drag racers, which kind of makes sense since the drag strip provides the lion's share of the revenue. It's too bad more didn't go our way in the past, but all I can do is look to the future. I originally got involved as a financial consultant to Faasst, but have since become much more involved in the regular operations. If we motorcyclists want our voices to be heard, we need to really take a more active role. As far as I know, I'm the only motorcyclist at the moment volunteering or putting up time, but I can't do it all alone. We are fortunate in that the current and future operator of PMP, Judy Faass, has a soft spot for bikes and people like me(us) so she is willing to hear us.

I'll be down there this coming weekend again donating my time to allow the track to stay open for lapping on Saturday/Sunday while Judy is out of town. If anyone wants to come with me and help put some elbow grease into the track, you are more than welcome!! I would love to get T9's runoff improved a bit and see what else we can do with the tools we have.




Well I do appreciate the efforts that you are volunteering to do around the track however until they fix turn 10 layout and the slick concrete that goes 3/4 down the drag strip its still a dangerous track. Removing the guardrail is a start. Its to bad that OUR club gave the city money to help pay for the paving and changing of T10 to cater to the drag racers. Sure wish we would have used the money at HPR or even PPIR.

[jbnwc]

Also - A big THANK YOU to Jim, Carl, Chris, Mike, Dennis, and Rick from the club who took time to come down Sunday to consult on T10 and the MRA's primary concerns with traction and T10. We now have a really good idea of what can be done to improve PMP fpr the MRA. I'm hoping that we can make some of it happen before the June race. I don't ever want to stop making improvements. It'd be great to have 2 MRA races at PMP in 2015 so we can really justify and contribute to all of the changes.

[Ray-Ray]

Ray, that is one of a few "motorcycle-specific projects" that are being looked at. I can't speak to anything that happened prior to last summer since that didn't involve Faasst or me, so all I can do is look to the future and hopefully learn from mistakes(aka "don't trust politicians") that were made in the past. I, too, would have liked to have seen a better outcome from the repaving, but I sat on my butt while all the decisions were being made and assumed someone else would speak up for us. No more. I'm not assuming anyone is doing anything, so I'm getting involved as much as possible.

I might be wrong, but I believe the people running PMP before Faasst were die-hard drag racers, which kind of makes sense since the drag strip provides the lion's share of the revenue. Someone had made some idiotic financial decisions and now Faasst is doing their best to make up for someone else's poor judgement. Believe me, I get so frustrated when I see what was done in past years and how that has limited our potential going forward, but all I can do is look to the future. I originally got involved as a financial consultant to Faasst, but have since become much more involved in the regular operations. If we motorcyclists want our voices to be heard, we need to really take a more active role. As far as I know, I'm the only motorcyclist at the moment volunteering or putting up time, but I can't do it all alone. We are fortunate in that the current and future operator of PMP, Judy Faass, has a soft spot for bikes and people like me(us) so she is willing to hear us despite how the small revenue % that bikes bring in.

I'll be down there this coming weekend again donating my time to allow the track to stay open for lapping on Saturday/Sunday while Judy is out of town. If anyone wants to come with me and help put some elbow grease into the track, you are more than welcome!! I would love to get T9's runoff improved a bit and see what else we can do with the tools we have.


Well for a start.... I'm not even sure who you are and or how long you have been involved with the motorcycle racing at PMI. To sit there and assume there was no MRA involvement in PMI over the years is mistaken. In fact we HAD representation from our club and the founding clubs on the repaving committee and or voices went unheard. I and several MRA board members visited PMI several times and went over the MRA's concerns with the "track manager" in which again went unheard. Bottom line as long as the road coarse involves the drag strip (especially the current condition) there is absolutely no way to race there in the rain. I mean even a drop of water in T10 will cause harm. Racing in the dry is also dangerous with the current conditions. Unless there is a safe solution to issues at hand the MRA should not commit to racing there more then we do. Not only for a safety concern but also a business concern. Again, I commend you for volunteering your time and energy helping the current track management. I hope things get worked out because I really love the track layout.

[jbnwc]

I'm not sure what I wrote came out right, Ray. I didn't mean to imply that the MRA wasn't involved; I just meant that I personally wasn't involved. Since I didn't personally do anything to make sure PMP was repaved to suit our needs, I can only blame myself and no one else if I don't like it now. I've only been involved with the MRA in the past 4 years or so and then only to the extent that regular life allows it(there is a reason married racers all list their wives as sponsors; because without their explicit and ongoing support, they wouldn't be racing). I would encourage everyone to get involved and stay involved as much as you can, especially with PMP now that Faasst is operating it. Right now, a lot of the big donations, sponsors, and volunteers come from the world of auto racing. I want to do what I can to make sure that our voices don't go unheard in Pueblo from now on.



Well for a start.... I'm not even sure who you are and or how long you have been involved with the motorcycle racing at PMI. To sit there and assume there was no MRA involvement in PMI over the years is mistaken. In fact we HAD representation from our club and the founding clubs on the repaving committee and or voices went unheard. I and several MRA board members visited PMI several times and went over the MRA's concerns with the "track manager" in which again went unheard. Bottom line as long as the road coarse involves the drag strip (especially the current condition) there is absolutely no way to race there in the rain. I mean even a drop of water in T10 will cause harm. Racing in the dry is also dangerous with the current conditions. Unless there is a safe solution to issues at hand the MRA should not commit to racing there more then we do. Not only for a safety concern but also a business concern. Again, I commend you for volunteering your time and energy helping the current track management. I hope things get worked out because I really love the track layout.

[Fastt Racing]

I'm just going to reserve this spot for future comments, because I have a lot of them.......

[jbnwc]

Thanks for coming and sharing your input Sunday, Dennis. I know everyone said the concrete wall isn't going anywhere, but I'm keeping it on my future list unless someone can convince me otherwise. I still do not understand why drag racers would rather hit a concrete wall than just slide off into the dirt. Has anyone here ever drag raced? Why do they love their concrete barriers so much? Having run off track several times and occasionally at triple digit speeds, I just do not understand why anyone would want a wall anywhere near themselves in the event they go off-roading. That goes for cars or bikes, right?? Dirt is a helluva lot less harmful to my car's paint than a wall. Am I missing something?

[JimWilson29]

Thanks for coming and sharing your input Sunday, Dennis. I know everyone said the concrete wall isn't going anywhere, but I'm keeping it on my future list unless someone can convince me otherwise. I still do not understand why drag racers would rather hit a concrete wall than just slide off into the dirt. Has anyone here ever drag raced? Why do they love their concrete barriers so much? Having run off track several times and occasionally at triple digit speeds, I just do not understand why anyone would want a wall anywhere near themselves in the event they go off-roading. That goes for cars or bikes, right?? Dirt is a helluva lot less harmful to my car's paint than a wall. Am I missing something?


The walls are an IHRA requirement.

[jbnwc]

The walls are an IHRA requirement.

That's what I keep hearing, but I got ahold of the IHRA and NHRA requirements today. PMP already does not meet IHRA wall rules because the walls are not adjacent to the track, at least 38" tall, and without openings(which are , of course, required for the road track entrance at PMP). There are numerous other IHRA track layout rules that PMP does not and cannot meet due to its hybrid layout(fencing around the return road comes to mind). The NHRA doesn't even provide any specifications for walls.

So the question remains: is it better to hit a wall or would it be better to drive off into the dirt(assuming it is smooth, flat and well groomed). I don't see the benefit to the wall, but maybe I'm missing something. I get why it should be there on the spectator side to keep cars out of the crowd, but why do we need it on the west side where there is no one to protect?

[JimWilson29]

That's what I keep hearing, but I got ahold of the IHRA and NHRA requirements today. PMP already does not meet IHRA wall rules because the walls are not adjacent to the track, at least 38" tall, and without openings(which are , of course, required for the road track entrance at PMP). There are numerous other IHRA track layout rules that PMP does not and cannot meet due to its hybrid layout(fencing around the return road comes to mind). The NHRA doesn't even provide any specifications for walls.

So the question remains: is it better to hit a wall or would it be better to drive off into the dirt(assuming it is smooth, flat and well groomed). I don't see the benefit to the wall, but maybe I'm missing something. I get why it should be there on the spectator side to keep cars out of the crowd, but why do we need it on the west side where there is no one to protect?


We were told that by the previous PMP Manager, Jason Abney that the walls, along with the other changes they had made were IHRA requirements. This was after he disregarded the MRA's suggestions and spent all of our money.
Moving the walls back would be a huge improvement to safety, however, the underlying issue is still the slick surface from Turn 10 to the start/finish line.

[jbnwc]

We were told that by the previous PMP Manager, Jason Abney that the walls, along with the other changes they had made were IHRA requirements. This was after he disregarded the MRA's suggestions and spent all of our money.
Moving the walls back would be a huge improvement to safety, however, the underlying issue is still the slick surface from Turn 10 to the start/finish line.

Son of a...! I'm taking the "trust, but verify" approach.

Yep, checking into what can be done with the surface is the first priority. After that I still need to convince the dragsters that hitting a wall is worse than hitting nothing. I'll have to dust off my old Physics 101 book.

[rforsythe]

IHRA rules are very likely based around keeping a vehicle moving well over 100mph contained in the event of a bad day - my guess is largely for spectator protection, but maybe other considerations too. When dragsters get out of control, it's not like sliding a car around a turn, they can careen into some pretty unpredictable directions (look up some youtube videos of drag car crashes for examples).

If IHRA rules are irrelevant at this point anyway and the drag racers don't have a strong attachment to that wall, I think we are all for making it go away.

Addition of tire walls is of limited benefit to us as motorcycle riders. Tires are good at softening the blow from a car hitting them, but a body doesn't compress them a whole lot. It's marginally better than concrete, but not by much.

[The GECCO]

That's what I keep hearing, but I got ahold of the IHRA and NHRA requirements today. PMP already does not meet IHRA wall rules because the walls are not adjacent to the track, at least 38" tall, and without openings(which are , of course, required for the road track entrance at PMP). There are numerous other IHRA track layout rules that PMP does not and cannot meet due to its hybrid layout(fencing around the return road comes to mind). The NHRA doesn't even provide any specifications for walls.

You're correct, the walls are not up to current standards. They are too short, and they do not have continuous asphalt all the way to them. In order to bring them up to snuff they would need to be taller and either the walls would need to be moved in to the edge of the track, or the track paved all the way out to the walls. However, they are grandfathered in and if any significant changes are made they will have to be brought up to the current standards. The funny thing is that I would have sworn that during my time at CMC I was told that any repaving would trigger the need to bring the walls up to snuff. I'm either remembering wrong, or they found a way around it, or just ignored it. Of course, I don't see any IHRA sanctioning on the PMP website, so if you're correct that NHRA doesn't specify maybe the walls don't matter because they have abandoned IHRA sanctioning.


So the question remains: is it better to hit a wall or would it be better to drive off into the dirt(assuming it is smooth, flat and well groomed). I don't see the benefit to the wall, but maybe I'm missing something. I get why it should be there on the spectator side to keep cars out of the crowd, but why do we need it on the west side where there is no one to protect?

The idea is to make the lane as narrow as possible. If a (drag race) vehicle goes out of control the narrower the lane is the lower the angle of incidence with the wall will be, which lowers the G loads. Keeping the vehicle on asphalt also lowers the chances of a rollover because the wheels, etc cannot dig into the pavement the way they can with dirt or any other softer surface.

[rforsythe]

The funny thing is that I would have sworn that during my time at CMC I was told that any repaving would trigger the need to bring the walls up to snuff. I'm either remembering wrong, or they found a way around it, or just ignored it.

Well, technically they didn't repave so much as just cover up what was already there with more. :eek:

[jbnwc]

Thank you Gecco! I'll be down there this weekend if anyone wants to come practice, look at the track with me, or help me work on improvements!!






You're correct, the walls are not up to current standards. They are too short, and they do not have continuous asphalt all the way to them. In order to bring them up to snuff they would need to be taller and either the walls would need to be moved in to the edge of the track, or the track paved all the way out to the walls. However, they are grandfathered in and if any significant changes are made they will have to be brought up to the current standards. The funny thing is that I would have sworn that during my time at CMC I was told that any repaving would trigger the need to bring the walls up to snuff. I'm either remembering wrong, or they found a way around it, or just ignored it. Of course, I don't see any IHRA sanctioning on the PMP website, so if you're correct that NHRA doesn't specify maybe the walls don't matter because they have abandoned IHRA sanctioning.



The idea is to make the lane as narrow as possible. If a (drag race) vehicle goes out of control the narrower the lane is the lower the angle of incidence with the wall will be, which lowers the G loads. Keeping the vehicle on asphalt also lowers the chances of a rollover because the wheels, etc cannot dig into the pavement the way they can with dirt or any other softer surface.

[DOUBLE A]

How much is it to FIM PAINT over the slick concrete???

[JimWilson29]

How much is it to FIM PAINT over the slick concrete???

I doubt the VHT Trackbite that they put down for the drag racers is going to work on painted concrete.

[NossLou]

How much is it to FIM PAINT over the slick concrete???


Taking a shit slick surface and covering it up with paint IMO is going to make it worse, also that paint is put on a clean rough surface, not one covered in vht and rubber. It doesn't matter to me if its paint, or marbled concrete, once covered in that shit it will take an entire trackday with bikes to develope a line. To me there is not a solution until the surface changes. I also think it is getting slicker with time. First year after the renovations we were able to start venturing out into the danger zone with enough grip to keep the bike up under neutral throttle. I did this because my fat ass doesn't get out of the hole like the skinny boys do when they shut it down and shoot up the middle.(I found out the hard way this year how I would loose 8-12 bike lengths down the straight against you skinny asses and your cheater motors) I tried this past year carrying corner speed and going wide to the outer most rough line, and it may have been ICE to get there, much more slick than the prior year.

In all honesty I would really like to know what the benefit of marbled concrete is in that area vs rough concrete... I figure the concrete was used vs asphalt for longevity, but why marbled? Yeah with vht and a burnout I can see a tire sticking, but not a moto tire under any condition. I could see rough concrete maybe destroying drag tires at first but once rubber gets laid down would that problem be resolved? I'd think once rubber is laid down you would get better grip on rough vs smooth. I don't know any of the answers, but am curious to know why marbled?

:cool:

[aspenbum]

IMO the only solution is a new T9 & T10 that will enable us to use the burn box as a straight instead of a turn exit. I assume this eould cost alot and require a lot if planning but its the only correct and safe solution for bikes. The track could then use the old configuration solely for their drag racing (staging, sorting, etc) and the new config would be for road racing. I remember taking some laps in a Corvette there once and the driver was as unhappy with t10 as any motorcycle racer could be. I think that both road racing communities, cars and bikes, need to work together on this to make the necessary changes so that this track can live up to its potential. IMHO.

[DOUBLE A]

Ahhh whats the difference anyway. When you dragrace there on a bike like I did in 2011, you watch all the cars some leaking fluids and not teched for crap. Go down the strip and then stay on the race line till they pull off the track in the middle & some cars drive the whole track.. As cheep as it was to race with them, I wonder how they can hold an event..

[mopoet178]

How about moving all drag racing equipment ~150 ft north then repave turn 10? That way bikes are straight up and down when they get to the new slick spot. That first 150 ft of west wall could then be moved to the end of the strip. No major configuration changes needed. Some staging/procedural changes could make up for the tower not being moved if its use is crucial for drag racing.

Nice job removing the T10 guardrail. That's one less airbag to setup, keep inflated, and tear down across a race weekend.

-Marsh

[WolFeYeZ]

How about moving all drag racing equipment ~150 ft north then repave turn 10? That way bikes are straight up and down when they get to the new slick spot. That first 150 ft of west wall could then be moved to the end of the strip. No major configuration changes needed. Some staging/procedural changes could make up for the tower not being moved if its use is crucial for drag racing.

Nice job removing the T10 guardrail. That's one less airbag to setup, keep inflated, and tear down across a race weekend.

-Marsh

I think the draggers would miss their control tower...