Rider Poll - That One thing . . . .

[shRED]

Got a quick poll for you gents. Two easy questions....answer any or all as you wish. This is a blatant attempt to pick the brains of experienced folk.


1. What's the one thing I'm glad I did / learned / focused on when I first starting racing?


2. What's the one thing I wish that I would have done / learned / focused on when I first started racing?



Thanks!

Jason Redman

[rybo]

Jason -

this is a great question.

There are a couple things that I did when I started that I think were really helpful.

1) I raced small motorcycles

I started racing on an FZR400 and it was a really good move. This forced me to adopt lesson #2 and focus on being a really good rider instead of a really "fast" rider. The skills needed to maintain corner speed are much harder to learn and implement if you have 160 HP on tap.

If I was starting today I would get either a Ninja 250 an SV650, or an EX650. These bikes are viable in a large number of classes for racing. All are raced in our club by experts as well as new riders because they offer some challenges that large motorcycles do not and they are capable bikes that you can't really outgrow. (mind you a 250 lb guy on a Ninja 250 might be a real stretch, but we've had some really big guys race RS125's in our club over the years and do really well). The thing to remember in club racing in particular is that the rider is probably 80% of the equation. A good rider on a slow bike will still go pretty well, where a not so good rider on a really fast bike is going to get beaten.

2) I focused on being a good /smooth consistent rider.

This has helped through my whole racing career. As I've changed bikes over the years this has been extremely valuable as I can make changes to something that is consistent. If I never get that consistency it's impossible to make a meaningful change.

3) I got some help.

When I found myself at plateaus I got some help. I took lessons from riders who were both better than me, and skilled teachers. In my time that was mostly Mark Schellinger. Today you would get in touch with our new rider director, Jeff Brown, for guidance.

I hope that helps.

Scott

[gsnyder828]

Agree - great questions




1. What's the one thing I'm glad I did / learned / focused on when I first starting racing?

a) I made sure I could afford to race - I didn't go into debt. This meant I didn't complete a full season for my first 5 years of racing.

b) I spent $$ on the best protective gear I could buy. In my first season I spent more on protective gear than my first race bike.

c) I started on a 10 yr old CBR600 - allowing me to run MV and learn from experts racing Honda Hawks and late 80s GSXRs.




2. What's the one thing I wish that I would have done / learned / focused on when I first started racing?



a) I didn't focus enough on making sure my bike's mechanicals were in top shape. In one case I had plenty of warning that my transmission was bad/going bad... but I didn't fully think of the potential consequences other than missed shifts. It locked and put me on my head in the last turn @ PPIR. I woke up from my nap with the EMTs looking down at me... I'm very lucky it happened in a slow turn and not T2.

b) I didn't race a LW bike (SV650) until my 10th season.

[shRED]

Rybo - thanks man. You sure answer a lot of my dumb questions - thank you! Sorry about the dumb helmet question, that dang production number read 001122 - I was thinking, that's not a date! After re-reading the Shoei website and realizing that the year came first, and I said "what are the chances?" 11/22/00. Funny.

After lots of talking with guys around the paddock last Sat. and thinking, agree that the SV650 is going to be the bike, most definitely. I'm going to post an add for one that - preferably is all set up for a relatively big dude. Maybe I can get away with just buying different front and rear springs and the rest can be plug and play! (That would be really lucky - but who knows?). Thanks for this input - it confirms what I was thinking. Lots of other good info here. Definitely working on the smooth...

Geoff - Never even thought that a tranny failure could result in a total lockup, but it makes sense. That's a scary good point. I definitely want to avoid any interaction with the EMT's if possible - I'm not the only person who my job houses and feeds! (which at present is my biggest concern - how to race SAFELY!).

Maybe I'll try to combine your knowledge about racing SV650 with the Modern Vintage experience you had and get a 10 year old 650 that qualifies for MV. I think there's a reasonable chance I might begin and finish with the SV650. It seems to be the way to go. I own all twins anyway (except the CR500), so it makes sense for me anyway. How can you not like a class called "Thunderbike!"

Really good points here, thanks guys. This is a big decision for me, thanks for understanding the need to learn all I can before I jump in (and the hesitance!).

Jason

[Fastt Racing]

These questions are Very Very intelligent for you to be asking, as most people just jump in and start an uphill battle right away. Between Rybo, Brownie, Aaron Fisk, Tony, Mohammer, Louden etc. You have a great group of talent and experience at your fingertips that is unparalleled in most any club racing out there.

I also think extra quality protective gear is very important!

[rybo]

These questions are Very Very intelligent for you to be asking, as most people just jump in and start an uphill battle right away. Between Rybo, Brownie, Aaron Fisk, Tony, Mohammer, Louden etc. You have a great group of talent and experience at your fingertips that is unparalleled in most any club racing out there.

I also think extra quality protective gear is very important!

I agree with Geoff and Dennis on the gear. It's really easy to spend money on the bike to try to make it look better, go faster whatever.

That being said, more expensive doesn't always equal 'better'. In the equipment category the best protective gear is whatever fits you the best. Try on a bunch of stuff, if you can, before buying. A $600 helmet can be a great thing, so long as it fits well. If it doesn't it simply will not protect your head.

As far as your comment as to racing "safely". This sport has risks. The good news is that most of the risks are well known and you can do some planning to mitigate them. But wait, there's more! The risk is already mitigated to a great degree because we have a tremendous group of people that support us in this endeavor. The corner / safety crew and our ambulance staff are simply the best and I find racing even more satisfying knowing they are there in case something goes wrong.

You're well on the path and asking the right questions! See you at the track

Scott

[Snowman]

And with a bit of searching you can find really good deals...


http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com/Categories.bok?category=Teknic+Apparel%3ADemo+Suit +BlowOut

[shRED]

Snowman we were looking for you Saturday night. I had my list of racing numbers, wandering around the paddock. We even brought a little white lightning - hehe.

Just wanted to say thanks for the great advice and encouragement man. My GF and I met Martin, watched the SuperStreet event and had some good BBQ. Good stuff.

Thanks for the post on the deals, that's an awesome site. I got my AlpineStar MX-1's off a guy on CL for 400 bucks! (in a size 48!). I'm a deal hound too - (F*!*ing tirekickers!) I love my leathers, but I do need some proper gloves.....

[Mforza]

Hey, it was very nice to meet you in the pits! Glad you could show up :)

For the #1 question: I was glad I found bunch of people (now good friends) that I could pit with and talk about all that "bull" around racing that we all colected through the weekend :D
And we could help each other to get ready for practice/race as it was hectic to be ready on time at the begining :)

For #2: I wish I could control myself better when I started racing :(
Lots of crashing was due to inexperience and trying to go too fast too soon.
Well, I'm still crashing as you could see :) but at least now it's not because of some "stupid" mistake I'v done at the track. Now it's just a "mistake" :D
And trust me, "it hurts!!!" :D

[jmaher]

#1) Made sure I had the funds to get into it and do it. I will not go into debt to do this or any other hobby.

#2) If buying a race bike, get help buying your bike and try to get one that you know or that your fellow races can vouch for. I bought my bike from a WERA racer in Iowa with lots of spares and extras. It was supposed to be turn key ready (not so much) and it did come with lots of spares and extras....for other bikes. I also wish I had known about this forum before I started really getting into it.

Joe

[spideyrdr]

One thing I can say I am glad I did was set goals.

Big goals, little goals, 1 little goal going in, 3 big goals going out.

If you don't hit the track with a purpose, you're just burning up gas and tires. If your goal ends up being "Don't be last" so be it. Make your goals for you, don't make them personal, and you'll end up chasing something.

[shRED]

This is really getting good! Thanks everyone.

Thanks Martin - good to meet you as well. I checked out those MZ's - those are pretty sweet! It's like a Yamaha motor version of the SV650 except single cylinder. Cool!

Joe - "it came with lots of spares and extras, for other bikes." Great point, learned from experience.


RECAP:

1. Know you can afford it. (2)
2. Get the best personal protective gear you can afford. (4)
3. Learn to make yourself go fast before buying shit for the bike.
4. Learn to ride in a controlled fashion before trying to be too fast.
5. Focus on riding smoothly with good form and lines before you try to ride too fast or a high HP, fast bike.
6. START ON A SLOWER BIKE AND LEARN TO MAKE IT FAST THROUGH RIDING IT CORRECTLY (4).
7. Consider buying a bike that also qualifies for Modern Vintage, so you can learn by riding with experts in Modern Vintage.
8. Good protective equipment = equipment that fits vs. "Top Dollar."
9 Know the mechanical state of your bike for safety.
10. When you plateau, take a lesson.

Really enjoying this. Thank you all....


Jason Redman
aka jred shred shredman yeah yeah yeah.

[shRED]

Modern vintage eligible sv650 all set up, save for springs, should be here next week. Thanks for the awesome advice in this thread. I'm taking it seriously......

Thanks to everyone who helped on this. This list is my guide!

Thank you!!!

[shRED]

An extra special thank you goes out to Geoff Snyder for looking at and giving me feedback on every single sv650 I sent to him, and suggesting a few of his own. Feedback on pricing, condition, spares, everything. I made a lot better decision than I would have and I am extremely grateful for his significant effort on my behalf. Thank you Geoff!

[phildrummond]

#1. I raced within my means fiscally and physically. Still do. That means I'm not in debt and, I'm pretty much the slowest guy out there...and still having a blast. Also glad I had good protection. I've used it and walked away just sore.

#2. Wish I spent more time on one-on-one instruction. I did a school where they followed us with GoPros. Those videos taught me more about what I was doing wrong than anything. If you can swing money for one-on-one instuction, that money will pay off much more than expensive loot designed to make the bike faster.

[scooter]

I second the one on one instruction with the go-pros, I did the rybo's
secrets of speed school before last round and picked up a second and half. Its one thing for someone to tell you your doing this or that wrong, but to see it and discuss what your doing is really helpful. I wish I had done this much sooner.

[shRED]

Thanks Phil, scooter and spyder. More good info....

[T Baggins]

1) Glad I was enthusiastic as hell and found pitmates who shared my insanity. Not that we're not all a little nutz, but I found a group who I've turned into lifelong friends in racing, and in life. Those are the ones who keep me coming back, pick me up when I fall down, and help me get thru life at the track and beyond. The MRA (or any racing club for that matter) is a perfect place to make the best friends ever. Take advantage of that, don't pit solo, do your races and go home... you'll miss out on 99% of the fun.

2) Wish I had figured out "connect the dots" earlier. What I mean by that is - find visual queue's around the track and know "exactly where you are, and exactly where you should be relative to those queue's". Once you find the perfect line thru a turn (at your given speed) the only way you can repeat it consistently is to know "where you are" and "where you're supposed to be" at any given time. These will change as your skill and speed increases, but knowing exactly when to brake, when to tip in, where the apex is, where you get back on the gas, where you finish the turn is invaluable. For me it creates huge confidence on the track. When I "hit my marks" I KNOW I'm gonna make it thru the turn at speed.

Hope that makes sense, might be easier to understand "in practice" rather than in theory.

[Fastt Racing]

Oh boy. Tony's been drinkin and is gettin all mushy again, LOL. Love you too Tony!

[shRED]

Thanks Tony! At first I thought your post said "I found primates who shared my insanity" and thought YEAH! - this is a really wild bunch!!!

I will be tracking you down before too long to discuss point 2 in more detail. I need to start thinking about marks on my track days. Right now I'm using visual and muscle memory - but no marks. I'm going to read up on this, and then maybe it will help me when we discuss in more detail.

Thanks everyone!

J.Red

[shRED]

Tony - your post reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from Yogi Berra. My GF says this all the time but its soooo true -


In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are quite different.

- Yogi Berra

I would add that what we think we practice and what we actually practice are quite different - but the only way to know, is to observe ourselves in the act of practicing it. That's where the GoPro comes in!!

[Kingpin]

1. What's the one thing I'm glad I did / learned / focused on when I first starting racing?
2. What's the one thing I wish that I would have done / learned / focused on when I first started racing?

Jason,

Great questions and you already have the first one nailed. (Asking questions)..
I see you have gotten a lot of good feedback so far so I will try to build on that as well.

The best thing you can do 1st is to pick the correct bike. (In my opinion)
This will allow you a lot of opportunites.
Opportunities to ride a bunch of different classes and gain some experience "Seat time" is what it is all about with keeping an open mind.
An open mind to learn a little something each time you go out.

If you pick the right bike IE (SV650) or similar then you have the option to run at least 4 if not up to 8 races a weekend. This is HUGE, and pending budget.... will allow you to find classes that are a good mix. Fun ones, ones that continue to challenge you as a racer etc. Also if you take 3 or 4 starts a weekend that is so much more that the guy who just does endurance.

If I had to create a receipe for success it may look like this.
1. Work on you budget off season (Get prepaired for next year).
2. Pick the right bike to give you pleanty of "Seat time"
3. Join up with some friends/buddies at the track to build friendships and help guide you with "what to do" Just remembering to plug in your tire warmers 45 mins before your race is a big thing when you are all excited, but it can make or break your day.
4. Continue to ask questions - Stop by any time to discuss. There are no stupid questions, and any Board member is glad to help.
5. Become consistant with your riding - The key to going faster is to be consitant so when you want to make a change you can see the result. (I.E. I reference points for where you get on the gas, off the gas, on the brakes, start to turn, see the apex, roll back on the gas...)
6. Work on only 1 or 2 things at a time when you go out to ride. Don't try to change the world each practice it won't work.
7. Make small incremental changes- This keeps you safe and understanding what works and what does not.


2. What's the one thing I wish that I would have done / learned / focused on when I first started racing?

Simple: Ask more questions, continue to learn, get coaching etc..
Hope this helps,

Aaron.

[shRED]

SV650 Racebike Delivered last night! Thanks for all of the great advice, I'm taking it seriously. Thanks guys!!