F40 at Pueblo

[dave.gallant]

Which one of you knucklheads chopped the wheel and knocked down Dan Qualtire during F40 this past weekend at Pueblo? (MRA #15, the only TZ250 on the grid and the nicest guy you will ever meet)

Fess up and your punishment will hurt less.

[marty]

I hope he is okay. Dan is a super nice guy and helped me get my 250 sorted. I guess that is why he posted up in another forum looking for a radiator

[d_mob]

I watched that happen. Didn't see why, but on the last lap he ran off turn 7 and kept going, and going, and going... Right into a ramp (berm actually, but acted like a ramp for him).

It seriously looked like a slower version of X Games Step-Up. He went straight up in the air about five feet, the nose pointed down, and then he came straight down nose-first five feet.

When he landed he lifted his visor and a bunch of dirt fell out and he just lifted both of his arms as if to say, "I guess today wasn't my day".

Glad he is ok -

[rforsythe]

I watched that happen. Didn't see why, but on the last lap he ran off turn 7 and kept going, and going, and going... Right into a ramp (berm actually, but acted like a ramp for him).

It seriously looked like a slower version of X Games Step-Up. He went straight up in the air about five feet, the nose pointed down, and then he came straight down nose-first five feet.

When he landed he lifted his visor and a bunch of dirt fell out and he just lifted both of his arms as if to say, "I guess today wasn't my day".

Glad he is ok -

Bob H (Spiderman) did that out of the T7 exit into 8 a few years ago too; that berm got moved after it launched Booby into the air 30 feet and he landed near the track entrance. Very glad to hear Dan's encounter with the Pueblo stunt ramps went better for him.

[jbrowning]

I have a sequence of shots from that incident all the way up to just before he hit the birm. Sorry I didn't come over to help you. But it is a no no for me to come and help.

Jim

[dave.gallant]

I have a sequence of shots from that incident all the way up to just before he hit the birm. Sorry I didn't come over to help you. But it is a no no for me to come and help.

Jim

So you saw what actually happened?

Dan reports a red motorcycle chopping his front wheel (with red paint on his bike for good measure), but he doesn't honestly know who it was (or why).

[jbrowning]

I have a sequence of shots from that incident all the way up to just before he hit the birm. Sorry I didn't come over to help you. But it is a no no for me to come and help.

Jim

So you saw what actually happened?

Dan reports a red motorcycle chopping his front wheel (with red paint on his bike for good measure), but he doesn't honestly know who it was (or why).

Yes Dave, I have the shot of the tire being chopped off with the other bike in the frame and I might have the shot before that happened. So that might tell you all what exactly happened. Sorry I couldn't tell you off the top of my head right now. But when I get home this afternoon I will be more than happy to post the sequence of shots here in this thread. Will that work?

Jim

[dave.gallant]

Wow. You photo guys are amazing!!

Any info you might have would be great. Dan would love to know what actually happened.

[jbrowning]

Wow. You photo guys are amazing!!

Any info you might have would be great. Dan would love to know what actually happened.

Thanks Dave, I will get those posted up when I get home this afternoon.

Thanks
Jim

[jbrowning]

Here you go Dave. These are the pictures I have from the little mishap in turn 7. Hope this explains what happened.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/jimb63/_IGP3808Dave.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/jimb63/_IGP3809Dave.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/jimb63/_IGP3810Dave.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/jimb63/_IGP3811Dave.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b243/jimb63/_IGP3812Dave.jpg

Jim

[dave.gallant]

How nice. I have seen that very same thing myself in years past. :roll:

Thanks for the pictures. Dan will greatly appreciate it.

[jbrowning]

No problem at all Dave. Sorry I didn't catch the other bike in the shots.

Jim

[d_mob]

Was this on the cool down lap? I remember Pat saying he missed the checkered flag and kept on racing. Maybe he was "head down" and the other rider was not?

I was wondering why you didn't have pics of the jump, but your sequence explains it. That bike was coming right at ya! :)

Did the TZ have brake issues? He was going quite slow off the track and into the dirt and IMO had enough time to get the bike slowed to a stop prior to the ramp. Or maybe he didn't see the ravine and ramp until the last second and thought he was going to just ride it out?

Gotta get those things stopped in the Pueblo outfield. No telling what you are going to hit (chain link fence, gopher hole, ramp, railroad tie, car on blocks, meth lab, etc). Hell, I landed on a football during my get off in turn 9!

[dave.gallant]

Dan does not believe this to be the cool down lap; it may have been the last lap(s) of the race.

Brakes were great; he was hoping to keep it on two wheels and ride it out on the rear brake alone.

Feel free to post up get-well wishes to Dan here or PM me for his email address and email him directly. Besides nursing the bumps and bruises, he takes great pride in his "old" TZ250 and is very disappointed this may be the end of his season.

[sheispoison]

Looking at the lap times and running order on the results, I'm thinking this was Dan getting lapped on the last lap. I'm sure Pat wouldn't intentionally take out lap traffic. It's a bummer, I hope Dan heals up quick and is able to get the 250 2smoker going again, I was stoked to see him out there on that bike.

[rforsythe]

Dan does not believe this to be the cool down lap; it may have been the last lap(s) of the race.


I think it was on his last lap. He's on the 6/7-lap finishing difference in the scoring, but his times should have put him ahead of Adami who finished one place ahead of him with 7 laps counted (Dan's at 6, but consistently faster). He also dropped 3 seconds in his last counted lap which is a big jump, so was perhaps pushing a little harder and didn't have as much room for shenanigans when they happened to him. I dunno, just a theory.

Hope he heals up!

Edit: Beat by Carl, but yeah Pat's time difference would have put him in lapping territory by then as well.

[kangsoh]

Let Dan know that I just PM'd him over on the TZ250 messageboard- I have a radiator from my spares kit that I'd be willing to part with to get him going again.


Dan does not believe this to be the cool down lap; it may have been the last lap(s) of the race.

Brakes were great; he was hoping to keep it on two wheels and ride it out on the rear brake alone.

Feel free to post up get-well wishes to Dan here or PM me for his email address and email him directly. Besides nursing the bumps and bruises, he takes great pride in his "old" TZ250 and is very disappointed this may be the end of his season.

[gixxermike]

Dan does not believe this to be the cool down lap; it may have been the last lap(s) of the race.


I was in T7 and saw the whole thing, it was on his last lap, very unfortunate and had some huge air going up the berm. Looked very graceful yet painful.

[T Baggins]

Hey guys and gals...
I've been watching this and letting it sort out a bit.

I have been in communication now with both Dan and Pat.

Here are my thoughts:

1) From what I have seen in the pix and heard from both parties, the suggestion that "some knucklehead chopped the wheel and knocked down Dan" is an overstatement at best.

2) It would have been neat if Dan had been the one to spearhead this investigation, and even more neat if he had contacted Pat directly and privately instead of this turning into a spectacle in the forums.

3) From the pictures provided, unless there are more which I haven't seen, the wheel wasn't "chopped off". I don't see anywhere that Pat DROVE THRU Dan's front wheel. IMO, that's chopping off.

4) Based on the marks on Dan's bodywork (which he has sent me photos of), which is some red paint/dye/?? on the right upper fairing - and looking at the first photo in the series - if there was contact - it was most likely Pat's left Shoulder. There is no photo to corroborate that they hit, but no reason to believe they didn't.

5) Even after the alleged contact, Dan is still completely in the seat, and still turning - though well off line. His left knee is still out like before, but he is no longer looking thru the turn... he is now looking at the photographer/berm. He is still not "knocked down".

6) Dan stated to me that he chose to stand it up and try to ride it out and save it in a straight line. The berm came up too fast, and he hadn't scrubbed enough speed. That's when he fell down.

Sometimes we come together on the racetrack. Oftentimes we save it, sometimes we don't.

Categorizing this incident as a deliberate or even aggressive manuever I think is unfounded without additional evidence.

And in any event, I will suggest Dan and Pat work this out privately if either of them wish for additional resolution.

[dave.gallant]

Hey guys and gals...
I've been watching this and letting it sort out a bit.

I have been in communication now with both Dan and Pat.

Here are my thoughts:

1) From what I have seen in the pix and heard from both parties, the suggestion that "some knucklehead chopped the wheel and knocked down Dan" is an overstatement at best.

2) It would have been neat if Dan had been the one to spearhead this investigation, and even more neat if he had contacted Pat directly and privately instead of this turning into a spectacle in the forums.




Dan himself expressed frustration and concern to MRA officials in the tower already and was told "it is a racing incident". I did not change context or exaggerate anything.

I did not know it was Sir Ducati that initiated said incident nor did Dan; hence why I asked the question here in hopes of shedding some light on it. My only exaggeration it seems was the term "knucklehead".

So, silly me. Carry on and lets start a trend of seeing if in every race we can find the oldest guy on the grid and make sure to punt him off the track in 7 laps. :roll:

[T Baggins]

Hey guys and gals...
I've been watching this and letting it sort out a bit.

I have been in communication now with both Dan and Pat.

Here are my thoughts:

1) From what I have seen in the pix and heard from both parties, the suggestion that "some knucklehead chopped the wheel and knocked down Dan" is an overstatement at best.

2) It would have been neat if Dan had been the one to spearhead this investigation, and even more neat if he had contacted Pat directly and privately instead of this turning into a spectacle in the forums.




Dan himself expressed frustration and concern to MRA officials in the tower already and was told "it is a racing incident". I did not change context or exaggerate anything.

I did not know it was Sir Ducati that initiated said incident nor did Dan; hence why I asked the question here in hopes of shedding some light on it. My only exaggeration it seems was the term "knucklehead".

So, silly me. Carry on and lets start a trend of seeing if in every race we can find the oldest guy on the grid and make sure to punt him off the track in 7 laps. :roll:

How could this be characterized as anything other than a racing incident? The two have never met and their apparent only experience with one another was at the apex of T7 - so there could have been no pre-meditation or prior history to make this anything but a racing incident.

I think "knocked down" is also an exaggeration based on the photos.

And finally, if we're gonna start this new trend of knocking the oldest guy down - then let me be the first to declare:

IT'S OPEN SEASON ON BREWER!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[JimWilson29]

And finally, if we're gonna start this new trend of knocking the oldest guy down - then let me be the first to declare:

IT'S OPEN SEASON ON BREWER!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't think Brewer needs our help with that.

[polar x]

And finally, if we're gonna start this new trend of knocking the oldest guy down - then let me be the first to declare:

IT'S OPEN SEASON ON BREWER!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


I don't think Brewer needs our help with that.

He has to keep a bike running long enough to be a target...with that motecy thingy.... :wink: :wink: :wink: Extra points if you get Sexy Ben while he is working on it :?: :?:

:P :P :P

[Bueller999]

I do not approve of the bounty on "old guys" :(

[Mforza]

I do not approve of the bounty on "old guys" :(

Approve or not, I'm comming for you Dave! :D
The game is on!
I will just have to wait untill you lap me in the race to take you out :D :D

[Bueller999]

Oh chit!

[rforsythe]

Can't you old fuckers just trip each other with your walkers and canes in the paddock?

[Bueller999]

I'd throw my cane into your spokes if your bike actually moved under it's own power. :lol:

[Mforza]

:D :D :D

[Jim 'smooth' Brewer]

So I don't read the forum for a couple days, Baker takes aim, and Wilson, Ralph & Cooner pile on.

My bike runs fine (thanks to Brian & Ben), it's not burned up, my transmission _works_,and my rear master cylinder is bigger that Tony's whole motor.

So there. http://users.frii.com/jjb/emote/bitchslap.gif

[T Baggins]

So I don't read the forum for a couple days, Baker takes aim, and Wilson, Ralph & Cooner pile on.

My bike runs fine (thanks to Brian & Ben), it's not burned up, my transmission _works_,and my rear master cylinder is bigger that Tony's whole motor.

So there. http://users.frii.com/jjb/emote/bitchslap.gif

You snooze, you become the object of a threadjack... that's the way we roll in the MRA.

[T Baggins]

Hi Kids,

So never being one to leave things "unfinished" I just want to close out this little topic with the following facts:

1) Neither of the involved parties are involved in the discussion, so there is little use in our belaboring it, unless they want to chime in. Basically we're all cyber-masturbating here over something we have little knowledge of, and no stake in.

2) I have received and reviewed photos of the crash sequence in ultra-high res (15mb each) - Thank You Jim Browning.

3) I have received and reviewed photos of the crash damage "red paint" marks on Dan's bike.

4) There is absolutely NO evidence of there being any marks, scuffs, damage, or red paint on Dan's bike at any point during the incident from before the alleged contact until AFTER he was out of camera shot.

5) Dan and Pat wear IDENTICAL leathers.

Based on the description of the crash itself - X-Games Step-UP - I believe it is most likely that the red marks on Dan's bike came from Dan.

Whether or not it was a close pass, or if there was something about it that spooked Dan I guess only Dan knows... but the evidence is clear that Pat Lansu did not "... knock down Dan."

Thank you for your interest and participation in this Kangaroo Court proceeding.

Let's please now focus our attention some items that we ALL do have knowledge of, and ALL do have a stake in:

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=15068

or

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewtopic.php?t=14642

or

http://forums.mra-racing.org/viewforum.php?f=18

Thank you, and good night.

[RZRACE]

Ok, I don't internet frequently as many others do and had no idea that this had gone this far and gotten out of control. I have communicated with "The Pres" and will quote a couple things that I sent to him:

1) "I in no way, wanted to start anything like that. I will go to the forum and check it out and make an appropriate post myself to try to quench any misunderstandings. Thanks for blowing that up, I don't see anything either. My helmet is not new but, my leathers are. I will try to see how hard it is to clean off but, I'll bet you are right, the marks could be from my leathers. I was piecing together what happened from 1) my memory (I did hit my head but, did not loose consciousness. It did take me a minute to gather my thoughts and take physical inventory) 2) What Shane had told me when I went to pick my bike up, 3) when I got back home and told my son what happened he said "what about the red paint on your bodywork"? To the honest and best recollection and evidence I had, he bumped me coming around the outside. The last thing I remember is the flash of red to my right and across the front, then the edge of the track, stand on the back brake, try to turn some (without burrying it in the gravel), berm, done. It was also VERY hot that day, maybe my perception was off? "
2) "I will never judge anyone on someone elses experiences or perception. I have never met Pat and do not know him. I do wish someone would consult with Shane and ask him what he actually saw happen. Really just for my benefit. I will do my best to put this to rest as I know you have much better things to do.
I would like to say though, it is my understanding since I started in '96, (which I know, you have much more experience than I) that it is always the overtaking riders responsibility to get it done safely. I had passed five or six guys to that point (no issues) and had to wait on the last guy I passed to find that he didn't like entering T5 before I made the move, probably lap 5. I knew I carried more speed up the hill and it would be no problem. Never saw a wheel again until Pat on lap 6. Would it have been such a big deal to wait till after T7 and wheelie past me or something since no one was even challenging him? I don't know. Again, I am sorry this has happened and will as eloquently as possible try put a lid on it. Let me know if anyone finds out anything from Shane if you talk to him."

I in no way think that Patrick did anything intentional or malicious and, from that aspect it is a "racing incident". I did not even know at the time who it was or, I might have tried to find him and ask what happened from his perspective. I hold no ill will towards him, or I would have tried to seek him out prior to this. I do not think he intended to "punt the old guy off the track". Certainly I was mad at the time and wish things were different, because it's gonna cost to put things back together. A risk sport. I love this club and, have been a part of it for a long time.
I do however, have a different perception and opinion of "chopping someones front off". I do not believe there must be actual contact but, if you come across someone so hard, in the middle of a turn, (and you know you have speed that they don't) that they have to adjust (and have few choices?), this is chopping someone's front off also. Once again, MY opinion.
I don't like what happened. I don't think it's right. Could I have done something different to avoid it? Possibly. Was it my responsibility? I don't think so, I wasn't the overtaking rider. I do not think I am a mean or vindictive person (or at least, I hope not). I am open to conversation from Patrick or any one if it will help. That's my view, let the thrashing begin?

[rforsythe]

Thank you Dan. Really it's not up to anyone else in this thread. If you think shenanigans took place you can choose to pursue it, if not then it's a racing incident without malicious intent (possibly as a result of poor judgment, but then most racing incidents are) and such things do happen in this sport. Beyond that, there is no need for thrashing/trashing/bashing to take place here. We all put a lot of trust in each other every time we share a patch of asphalt, but we're also all human. It's racing.

[Fastt Racing]

Hi Dan. I have only talked with you a couple times. It was about the USGPRU championship trip last year. I really wish I would have noticed that you raced with us at R4 so I could have introduced myself, as you seemed to be a really cool guy. I am sorry to hear about the accident, and will pray for a speedy recovery for you Dan. Racing incidents are always tough as you know. I understand your fondness for this club, and I'm sure that we would all love to see you back sometime soon!

[JimWilson29]

I do not think he intended to "punt the old guy off the track".

Or "punt the younger guy off the track". Pat is actually older than you, Dan. :)
Glad you're ok and hope to see you out at some of the upcoming rounds.