PPIR Numbers

[Teach]

Just curious, how are we looking as far as numbers go for the weekend?

[JimWilson29]

Our pre entry for this round was $17,835 with 97 riders

We are expecting $4k in walk-ups which would put us at about $22K in rider entries.

Gate entry should be around $2K due to better promotion and wrist bands

Garage rental prob will be $2800

Superstreet expected to be about $1100

Transponder Rental runs about $500 per weekend

Total event income expected = $28,400


Cost to put on the event last year was $29,035

[Teach]

Those are relatively low numbers for riders, right?

[NossLou]

yeah very low...I remember just two years ago it was 120 or the weekend wasn't happening.... when I started 150+ was the norm.....

[JimWilson29]

yeah very low...I remember just two years ago it was 120 or the weekend wasn't happening.... when I started 150+ was the norm.....

That is very true but with some smart financial decisions and cutting back on a lot of expenses by your board these past couple seasons, we've been able to lower the final cost of our race weekends so that we are able to absorb a minimal loss due to a low turnout. We are committed to keeping the MRA a viable entity so that we can continue to race in the future.

I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.

[NossLou]

yeah very low...I remember just two years ago it was 120 or the weekend wasn't happening.... when I started 150+ was the norm.....

That is very true but with some smart financial decisions and cutting back on a lot of expenses by your board these past couple seasons, we've been able to lower the final cost of our race weekends so that we are able to absorb a minimal loss due to a low turnout. We are committed to keeping the MRA a viable entity so that we can continue to race in the future.

I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.

Agreed 100% you all have done one hell of a job to keep this club alive. Not exactly sure how you guys pull it off with numbers falling each year, and track expenses going up, but you do. I can't thank you all enough.


Man I can not imagine seeing 200 plus bikes out there.... That would be down right awesome!

[The GECCO]

I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.

Um, no. Our highest rider count was 186 at the 2005 spring PPIR race. We ran out of transponders. The average that year was 155 per event.

No, I'm not Rainman, I just happen to remember because we were crunching a lot of numbers in 2006 after the closing of SCR, PPIR and CDR all in one season.

[TRK]

Yo rainman,
Was PPIR the highest count ever? If not want was the highest rider count at any track?

[T Baggins]

Jim is a lot like me... we both have a photogenic memory...

that is, we tend to remember things as better than they actually were. :lol:

[d_mob]

Not to open up the floodgates here (again), but it sure would be nice to substitute one of our costly/financial loss rounds to fill in @ one of the MOM rounds at no cost. Could isolate our transponder #'s for MRA specific results.

Just saying, replacing Pikes w/ a multi-million dollar FIM standard facility sounds pretty good to me and in fact, it seems a shame that we as moto-racing fans and participants, don't take advantage of and support the track.

In return, MOM riders would be offered reciprocity and would only have to contribute race entry, which as a benefit would greatly increase attendance and income for one of our existing rounds.

The argument has always been, "we can't do it as a points round b/c people wouldn't be willing to drive the seven hours". Well, we raced Hastings and it worked and I know me and the group I race/pit with would certainly be willing to race Miller. Besides the core 97, it doesn't seem like people are willing to make the trip to Pikes anyway, so F em! :)

What am I missing here? Is this not a reasonable solution to omit a costly round and add to an already profitable round? It would take some serious planning and cooperation from both clubs (consolidating / adding classes into race day schedule, ROR, etc), but seems doable.

Maybe an idea for 2013? Then again, I'm sure it'll get shot down for one reason or another like it always does. Alas, I'll have to enjoy WSBK and the APEX track day following in a couple of weeks to get my Miller fix.

Rant complete, fire away -

[JimWilson29]

I remember when 200+ was the norm. Let's hope that we will see that again someday.

Um, no. Our highest rider count was 186 at the 2005 spring PPIR race. We ran out of transponders. The average that year was 155 per event.

No, I'm not Rainman, I just happen to remember because we were crunching a lot of numbers in 2006 after the closing of SCR, PPIR and CDR all in one season.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic and thinking big for our club. :)

[lars]

^^ i would race at miller

[d_mob]

^^ i would race at miller

You and me buddy. We're starting a revolution! :lol:

[rybo]

David-

There are several challenges with a combined Miller round and you've identified most of them, but I want to make clear that we've done that once before with terrible financial results.

1) Travel distance - you cite Hastings as a traveling race success, but it really wasn't. We stopped going there because we lost nearly $20,000 in ONE RACE WEEKEND the last time we went to Hastings. The sport is fragile enough in this economy - add $500 in travel expenses to the cost of a round and what we would have is even some of the core group dropping out.

This has a bigger problem associated with it, not in that they don't attend that specific round, but that they are then essentially out of the points and have an incentive to skip future rounds as well. Go 36 points down in a championship and there is little or no chance of recovery from that. So now we are in jeopardy of not just losing that core group for one round, but for any number of rounds that follow that round.

Please don't hear me wrong, I love racing at Miller, and I'm committed enough to the sport that I would probably travel to race almost anywhere, but statistics show that I'm in the minority.

The other problem is that for this to work their club would have to essentially commit to traveling to come race with us. The difference in available facilities alone makes that a challenge for a large number of their racers. Many do not own canopies, generators or the other accouterments required for the more open paddock like we have at our races.

It's not that we would substitute a financial loss race for one that comes at no cost, it's more that we change where that cost is incurred. The MRA may not have any cost associated with running the round, but the riders themselves would have to more than make up for that change in cost. Moving the MRA paddock to Miller (I took three total rider efforts with me in the spring and rented a garage) and it was nearly $1000 in travel costs. We encountered a fierce headwind that nearly doubled my usual fuel cost, so for the sake of argument lets say in round numbers it's $200 per rider to get to Miller (and I think that's light). This doesn't include lodging costs, extra food costs etc as many racers have those for the MRA rounds anyways, this is the ADDITIONAL travel cost required to race at a distance. The other thing this doesn't consider is the extra time that someone would have to take off of work to accommodate the additional travel hours.

200 * 100 riders = $20,000 - not too far off the total cost to the MRA for a local round.

I'm a big fan - I like the USBA and enjoy going racing with them. As such I try to get over there for at least 1 round a year. Requiring it to stay in the championship hunt at this point is just not a good economic decision for the MRA



Not to open up the floodgates here (again), but it sure would be nice to substitute one of our costly/financial loss rounds to fill in @ one of the MOM rounds at no cost. Could isolate our transponder #'s for MRA specific results.

Just saying, replacing Pikes w/ a multi-million dollar FIM standard facility sounds pretty good to me and in fact, it seems a shame that we as moto-racing fans and participants, don't take advantage of and support the track.

In return, MOM riders would be offered reciprocity and would only have to contribute race entry, which as a benefit would greatly increase attendance and income for one of our existing rounds.

The argument has always been, "we can't do it as a points round b/c people wouldn't be willing to drive the seven hours". Well, we raced Hastings and it worked and I know me and the group I race/pit with would certainly be willing to race Miller. Besides the core 97, it doesn't seem like people are willing to make the trip to Pikes anyway, so F em! :)

What am I missing here? Is this not a reasonable solution to omit a costly round and add to an already profitable round? It would take some serious planning and cooperation from both clubs (consolidating / adding classes into race day schedule, ROR, etc), but seems doable.

Maybe an idea for 2013? Then again, I'm sure it'll get shot down for one reason or another like it always does. Alas, I'll have to enjoy WSBK and the APEX track day following in a couple of weeks to get my Miller fix.

Rant complete, fire away -

[The GECCO]

Yo rainman,
Was PPIR the highest count ever? If not want was the highest rider count at any track?

To the best of my knowledge that's the highest count since I've been involved with club (1999), there may have been counts higher than that before but the stories from most of the 'old timers' indicate otherwise.

During the years that AMA ran PPIR the MRA always ran there the weekend prior to the AMA event. It was usually our best attended event because:

1) It was early in the season and people hadn't raced themselves into the poorhouse or hospital yet
2) Typically a dozen or so AMA riders would show up
3) Riders wanted to see how their times stacked up against the pros
4) PPIR was run as a 'pro' track back then and track time there was very hard to come by. They didn't have open lapping like they do now

[d_mob]

So worst case we would rather drop a round or rounds than try this? I was only comparing Hastings as it was a similar drive and in 08' I remember quite a good turnout.

In regards to racers eating the $20k, racing isn't cheap regardless. However, I don't see how lodging would be different as most either camp track side or get hotel as-is. Sure, transport would be a bit more, but some camaraderie amongst racers and shared rides could certainly cut down on that.

There is the argument that you lose racers due to points lost, but do we lose racers when they crash @ HPR, Pueblo and/or Pikes and don't get points that round?

Some would argue that we shouldn't go because it is too expensive. However, on the flip-side, some would argue that someone else's limited racing budget shouldn't dictate when and where the club races.

I feel like we're missing out on an amazing track and enjoy the traveling race experience. How about we don't include it in the overall points and make a one-weekend mini-series w/ same trophies and classes? Or, we could just do one race w/ a traveling trophy that goes to 1st, 2nd and 3rd each year. Or, combine our 4-hr endurance races for one big trophy/check.

Regardless, it doesn't seem like the club is open to the idea, so all this is irrelevant.

PS... I HATE Pikes, but suck it up and race anyway b/c I want the points and am a committed member of the MRA. I go where the club dictates that I go. Not sure why I have to go to Pikes, but others can't/won't do Miller. I also had a car cross the track in front of me @ Pueblo mid-race, but I still race there! Safety and track quality are more important to me than saving a couple hundred bucks on one race weekend. Not sure why others don't have the same opinion.

PSS... If your budget argument held cred we would/could/should just race bicycles together on the track as it is much cheaper and we could pull huge turnouts. :)

[T Baggins]

who's talking about dropping rounds?

our first priority, as the Board, is to ensure continued racing and financial success in COLORADO at our HOME tracks.

'08 the economy was good. '12 the economy is not - you can't take 2008 success and use it in a current argument.

If we nuked PPIR in favor of a travel date, that would take a ton of money out of the local economy (PPIR, western ambulance, paying our cornerworkers, insurance, gas stations, tire vendors, etc, etc, etc...)

We put our schedule out in October this year so that neighboring clubs would have an opportunity to work their schedule to best accommodate cross-over. In fact I think we were the first in the COUNTRY to announce our schedule...

Apparently they did not take advantage of that as well as might have been hoped.

If you want a one-weekend mini-series with no points, just choose a non-conflict date, load up your trucks and go. Those who want to join you will do so, and it will not obligate or otherwise alienate the members who don't want to (or simply can't).

[jmaher]

I may be in the minority, but I like PPIR. Not only is it my favorite track but it is by far the most spectator friendly (beer garden helps) with the best infrastructure (the girlfriend likes the free WiFi). I wish we could race there more.

Joe

[Fastt Racing]

I Like PPIR as well. Great place to show your spectators and sponsors a world class racing experience.

[peteyt328]

Ditto that, I don't think its the best track but I always have fun and you can't beat the atmosphere at PPIR.

As far as Miller goes, I would drive 8 hours to race there over driving to Hastings even if I lived across the street. However, I do understand that not everyone can get the necessary time off or whatever and there is a conflict of points so it makes it difficult to do as a club. That being said, our season ends early this year and their final race is October 6'th (full track). Its worth the drive and we should get as many riders as possible to go represent the MRA.

[Teach]

I agree that its great we support our local businesses as Tony suggests and I also dont mind racing at PPIR, hell as long as I'm on my bike and I'm happy!
On the other hand, I hate to miss out on racing on a state of the art track like Miller... soo since my last day of work until mid Ausgust is next Fri, count me in for a road trip!!

[Fastt Racing]

I am considering the August West Course event 8/18/2011.
I am definitely planning on going to the October Full Course event 10/6/2011 after our season is over. We had a large group last year and had a great time. Let's get some shared rides put together in a couple months or so.

[evomach]

I'd double check your dates before you make any travel plans.

April 21-22: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
May 19-20: Miller Motorsports Park Perimeter Course (In conjunction with WERA)
June 30-July 1: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
August 18-19: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
September 15-16: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
October 6-7: Miller Motorsports Park Full Course

[rybo]

I'd double check your dates before you make any travel plans.

April 21-22: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
May 19-20: Miller Motorsports Park Perimeter Course (In conjunction with WERA)
June 30-July 1: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
August 18-19: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
September 15-16: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
October 6-7: Miller Motorsports Park Full Course

Thanks David - you beat me to it.

I'm hoping to make the October round and bring a few folks with me!

[evomach]

Maybe next season the 2 clubs can coordinate a weekend from each of their schedules and offer an good incentive($discount$) for racers of the other club to come out on that race weekend. Maybe get a larger group coming out, kind of formalize things so people all plan travel etc.. together for the same weekend and boost income for 1 round of each club. No points or championships involved, but allows both clubs to get extra entries and money they otherwise would not have seen. The racers get some pricing help to offset extra expenses of travelling and motivate them to give it a try. If it busts out participation wise - oh well, scrap it for the future.

[rforsythe]

I'd double check your dates before you make any travel plans.

April 21-22: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
May 19-20: Miller Motorsports Park Perimeter Course (In conjunction with WERA)
June 30-July 1: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
August 18-19: Miller Motorsports Park West Course
September 15-16: Miller Motorsports Park East Course
October 6-7: Miller Motorsports Park Full Course

Thanks David - you beat me to it.

I'm hoping to make the October round and bring a few folks with me!

I'd be down for that scott.

[d_mob]

A few things...

1. Thanks to the club, fellow racers, corner and ambulance workers, announcers and spectators for an amazing weekend. The weather Saturday was a bit 'iffy', but it turned out alright and today (Sunday) was incredible. I love racing motorcycles and especially love racing motos with the MRA.

2. Regarding the rain, it would have been nice for someone to chime in on this thread PRIOR to the rider meeting on Saturday, so we didn't all spend hundreds on rain tires, suits and setup and the vendors didn't have to truck out hundreds of pounds of rain inventory. :roll:

3. I'm down for a round @ Miller. Lars, Matt "What's the Diehl?" Diehl and I were all talking about it. Is everyone looking at the October full course date?

4. How is Ben Pepper? I heard he took a nasty spill, but haven't heard if he is ok and in good spirits.

I hope everyone has a great Sunday night and week ahead and I'll see everyone in exactly 21 days. Already can't wait!

[dmart]

David,

heard from Ben this evening he has some broken ribs and a "small punctured lung" he seemed in decent spirits and was hoping to be released tomorrow I believe.

Race in Miller in October might be a fun time, keep me in on your plans.

[jmaher]

While my results were not the best, I truly enjoyed this weekend. I was surprised not only at that number of spectators today (Sunday), but the number of them that were on bikes.

Ben, I hope you are feeling better soon!

Joe

ps I was one of the few that wanted a rain race!

[TRK]

The rain tires and gear were a good choice had it continued to rain. Ray made the right call in waiting out the storms. If it had continued to rain you could have put your rain gear to use.

When was the last time we went a season with no rain?

[d_mob]

The rain tires and gear were a good choice had it continued to rain. Ray made the right call in waiting out the storms. If it had continued to rain you could have put your rain gear to use.

When was the last time we went a season with no rain?

I thought we weren't racing in the rain at all this weekend? Did I hear incorrectly?

Waiting out the rain on Saturday was a good choice and it worked out well for us this weekend. Not to mention they did a great job of drying the track quickly.

[rforsythe]

[quote=TRK]
I thought we weren't racing in the rain at all this weekend? Did I hear incorrectly?

Sort of. How it ended up was 'if we can wait it out we will, if it's gonna be a monsoon and we have to go wet, we'll get the day done'. Ray's wording Sat AM was a bit strong in the "rain riding at PPIR is bad and we won't do it" dept and I certainly got the impression that it would take a very significant event to make a wet race like many others did, but after talking to Brownie after the fact I got the re-phrased version above.

In any event, I'm fine with having rain gear. It could have been necessary, and still may later this season. Plus I love rain riding anyway so I was hoping we'd get to.